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Old 04-23-2013, 05:41 PM  
R8RFAN R8RFAN is offline
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Welfare drug test bill passes NC Senate

Welfare drug test bill passes NC Senate


GREENSBORO, NC ó Senate Bill 594, which would require applicants for North Carolinaís WorkFirst Program to take and pass a drug test before receiving benefits, passed the state Senate on Monday.
WorkFirst allows adults to get cash benefits for themselves and their children as they look for work. More than 21,000 North Carolinians use the program, and more than 1200 of those are in Guilford County.
Steve Hays, with Guilford Countyís Department of Social Services, said current law requires a licensed professional to evaluate applicants. That person can ask for a drug test if he or she feels itís necessary.
SB 594 would require the testing up front for all potential recipients, and it would require the applicants to pay for that testing. If the applicant passes, according to the bill, the state would reimburse him or her. If he or she fails, there are no benefits and no reimbursement.
A Guilford County senator proposed an amendment requiring all legislators and their staff members to take and pass drug tests, as well, but that amendment failed.
Now that the bill has passed the Senate, it must pass the House and then be signed by Governor Pat McCrory to become a law.

http://myfox8.com/2013/04/23/welfare...ses-nc-senate/
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Wonton Prejudice View Post
THIS is how you save a little money on the federal budget.

Should be nationwide.
Not really. (edit: someone already beat me to it!)

Florida's welfare drug tests cost more money than state saves, data shows

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/2...#storylink=cpy

Required drug tests for people seeking welfare benefits ended up costing taxpayers more than it saved and failed to curb the number of prospective applicants, data used against the state in an ongoing legal battle shows.

The findings — that only 108 of the 4,086 people who took a drug test failed — are additional ammunition for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, which sued the state and won a temporary ban on the drug-testing program in October, said ACLU spokesman Derek Newton.

Attorneys for the state immediately appealed the ban, and will face off against the ACLU again at the 11th Circuit Court in Atlanta and the U.S. District Court in Orlando in coming months.

The costs and benefits of the law — and the outcome of the court case — could reverberate nationwide. This week, Georgia passed its own drug welfare law.

Since Gov. Rick Scott signed the bill into law last year, 25 states have considered similar legislation, Newton said.

Data about the law’s cost may impact the court of public opinion, but Jenn Meale, a spokeswoman for the attorney general’s office, said it won’t play a role in the legal proceedings.

That’s because ACLU’s case rests on whether the law violates the Fourth Amendment, which protects citizens against "unreasonable searches" by the government.

"Any costs associated with the program are irrelevant to the analysis of whether the statute is constitutional," Meale said.

Of the 4,086 applicants who scheduled drug tests while the law was enforced, 108 people, or 2.6 percent, failed, most often testing positive for marijuana. About 40 people scheduled tests but canceled them, according to the Department of Children and Families, which oversees Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, known as the TANF program.

The numbers, confirming previous estimates, show that taxpayers spent $118,140 to reimburse people for drug test costs, at an average of $35 per screening.

The state’s net loss? $45,780.

"That’s not counting attorneys and court fees and the thousands of hours of staff time it took to implement this policy," Newton said.

The law also didn’t impact the number of people who applied for benefits.

The findings don’t ruffle supporters of the law, who say that its primary purpose is to make sure taxpayer money doesn’t supplement drug use.

"It’s not about money, it’s about the drug issue," said Rep. Jimmie Smith, R-Lecanto, who sponsored the legislation. "It’s about using every tool we have in the toolbox to fight drugs."

Jackie Schutz, a spokeswoman for the governor’s office, said the governor agreed: The drug welfare law is about protecting children and getting parents back to work.

"It is important to ensure that people who receive TANF dollars use the cash assistance appropriately and not spend it on illegal drugs," she said.

Smith said he believes the law helps keep people off drugs and that there’s undocumented savings in the form of less prison costs and fewer broken families.

He sponsored another bill in 2012, recently signed into law by Scott, to allow state agencies to drug test their employees and fire those who test positive.

That law is also expected to cost money and to yield lawsuits.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:13 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
I would have supported an incremental effect, which incentivizes good behavior. The unintended consequence in NC now is that the state could have a bunch of people on drugs who, because they can't get food stamps, start stealing from stores.

Drugs are an addiction, so it's important to support a drug addict in ways that would help the person wean off the addiction. If we give him no support, we might see an increase in crime.

And then either he'll get caught and put into the system, thus getting him the 'help' needed...

or he'll try to steal from the wrong person, get shot and hopefully killed, thus eliminating his doping, theiving DNA from the gene pool.

See, these things usually work themselves out.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:14 AM   #18
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So I have to randomly pee into a cup for the right to pay taxes while someone else shouldn't be forced to do the same thing to receive free taxpayer money.

Brilliant ****ing plan.
You have to pee in a cup to pay taxes?

So increasing government reach into american citizens private lives and increasing government budgets is the reasonable thing to do because you have to pee in a cup for your job?

/it's called the private workplace. You choose to work there.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:17 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
And then either he'll get caught and put into the system, thus getting him the 'help' needed...

or he'll try to steal from the wrong person, get shot and hopefully killed, thus eliminating his doping, theiving DNA from the gene pool.

See, these things usually work themselves out.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:17 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
And then either he'll get caught and put into the system, thus getting him the 'help' needed...

or he'll try to steal from the wrong person, get shot and hopefully killed, thus eliminating his doping, theiving DNA from the gene pool.

See, these things usually work themselves out.
Or he could end up shooting some clerk at a grocery store who tries to fight him.

If he goes to jail, that costs a lot more than getting food stamps. And it's not federal money then. Now you're talking about state/county funds.

I don't know if your idea of "work out" is similar to most peoples.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:28 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
Or he could end up shooting some clerk at a grocery store who tries to fight him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most every store clerk is instructed not to resist during the commission of a robbery, yes??


Quote:
Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
If he goes to jail, that costs a lot more than getting food stamps. And it's not federal money then. Now you're talking about state/county funds.
So, you're saying that they're a complete burden, regardless??

Quote:
Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
O
I don't know if your idea of "work out" is similar to most peoples.
it's not.

We would have a much more logical and efficient world if it were...
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:39 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most every store clerk is instructed not to resist during the commission of a robbery, yes??

So, you're saying that they're a complete burden, regardless??

it's not.
We would have a much more logical and efficient world if it were...
I'm trying to figure out why you would be okay with an increase in crime just for the off chance somebody gets killed. Nothing about that makes sense.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most every store clerk is instructed not to resist during the commission of a robbery, yes??
I hope so. Do you think some clerks wouldn't resist if they thought they could? I worked at Hy-Vee, and my manager tackled a thief in the parking lot.

Quote:
So, you're saying that they're a complete burden, regardless??
No, I'm saying that throwing him in jail would be more of a cost burden than giving him food stamps.

If this is all about saving money, then you need to consider this. If it's about punishing poor drug users, then just say so.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:58 AM   #24
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Welfare drug test bill passes NC Senate


GREENSBORO, NC ó Senate Bill 594, which would require applicants for North Carolinaís WorkFirst Program to take and pass a drug test before receiving benefits, passed the state Senate on Monday.
WorkFirst allows adults to get cash benefits for themselves and their children as they look for work. More than 21,000 North Carolinians use the program, and more than 1200 of those are in Guilford County.
Steve Hays, with Guilford Countyís Department of Social Services, said current law requires a licensed professional to evaluate applicants. That person can ask for a drug test if he or she feels itís necessary.
SB 594 would require the testing up front for all potential recipients, and it would require the applicants to pay for that testing. If the applicant passes, according to the bill, the state would reimburse him or her. If he or she fails, there are no benefits and no reimbursement.
A Guilford County senator proposed an amendment requiring all legislators and their staff members to take and pass drug tests, as well, but that amendment failed.
Now that the bill has passed the Senate, it must pass the House and then be signed by Governor Pat McCrory to become a law.

http://myfox8.com/2013/04/23/welfare...ses-nc-senate/
double standard?
County, State and Federal employees are paid by the public. They should be required to pass a drug screen as well.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:44 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |Zach| View Post
Not really. (edit: someone already beat me to it!)

Florida's welfare drug tests cost more money than state saves, data shows

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/2...#storylink=cpy

Required drug tests for people seeking welfare benefits ended up costing taxpayers more than it saved and failed to curb the number of prospective applicants, data used against the state in an ongoing legal battle shows.

The findings ó that only 108 of the 4,086 people who took a drug test failed ó are additional ammunition for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, which sued the state and won a temporary ban on the drug-testing program in October, said ACLU spokesman Derek Newton.

Attorneys for the state immediately appealed the ban, and will face off against the ACLU again at the 11th Circuit Court in Atlanta and the U.S. District Court in Orlando in coming months.

The costs and benefits of the law ó and the outcome of the court case ó could reverberate nationwide. This week, Georgia passed its own drug welfare law.

Since Gov. Rick Scott signed the bill into law last year, 25 states have considered similar legislation, Newton said.

Data about the lawís cost may impact the court of public opinion, but Jenn Meale, a spokeswoman for the attorney generalís office, said it wonít play a role in the legal proceedings.

Thatís because ACLUís case rests on whether the law violates the Fourth Amendment, which protects citizens against "unreasonable searches" by the government.

"Any costs associated with the program are irrelevant to the analysis of whether the statute is constitutional," Meale said.

Of the 4,086 applicants who scheduled drug tests while the law was enforced, 108 people, or 2.6 percent, failed, most often testing positive for marijuana. About 40 people scheduled tests but canceled them, according to the Department of Children and Families, which oversees Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, known as the TANF program.

The numbers, confirming previous estimates, show that taxpayers spent $118,140 to reimburse people for drug test costs, at an average of $35 per screening.

The stateís net loss? $45,780.

"Thatís not counting attorneys and court fees and the thousands of hours of staff time it took to implement this policy," Newton said.

The law also didnít impact the number of people who applied for benefits.

The findings donít ruffle supporters of the law, who say that its primary purpose is to make sure taxpayer money doesnít supplement drug use.

"Itís not about money, itís about the drug issue," said Rep. Jimmie Smith, R-Lecanto, who sponsored the legislation. "Itís about using every tool we have in the toolbox to fight drugs."

Jackie Schutz, a spokeswoman for the governorís office, said the governor agreed: The drug welfare law is about protecting children and getting parents back to work.

"It is important to ensure that people who receive TANF dollars use the cash assistance appropriately and not spend it on illegal drugs," she said.

Smith said he believes the law helps keep people off drugs and that thereís undocumented savings in the form of less prison costs and fewer broken families.

He sponsored another bill in 2012, recently signed into law by Scott, to allow state agencies to drug test their employees and fire those who test positive.

That law is also expected to cost money and to yield lawsuits.
What about the people that never applied because they knew they would fail?
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:02 AM   #26
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:12 AM   #27
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I'm trying to figure out why you would be okay with an increase in crime just for the off chance somebody gets killed. Nothing about that makes sense.
I'm NOT okay with an increase in crime; I don't know where you drew tha conclusion.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:30 AM   #28
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:11 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
And then either he'll get caught and put into the system, thus getting him the 'help' needed...

or he'll try to steal from the wrong person, get shot and hopefully killed, thus eliminating his doping, theiving DNA from the gene pool.

See, these things usually work themselves out.
Could you be anymore clueless?

Getting put into the system will not get anyone help. For ****'s sake at least have an understanding of how things actually work.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:49 PM   #30
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Could you be anymore clueless?

Getting put into the system will not get anyone help. For ****'s sake at least have an understanding of how things actually work.
Tell us more X-con .
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