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Old 05-01-2013, 09:02 PM  
tk13 tk13 is offline
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Why Geno Smith fell in the draft

I've seen a couple other posts about this... but this probably deserves it's own thread considering how many hours we've wasted arguing about the guy. This is the first article I've seen theorizing why Geno fell in the draft. Time will tell whether it's accurate.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--ge...183846651.html

Quote:
On April 23, Smith, his agents, some family members and several friends gathered for dinner in New York in advance of the draft, a gathering confirmed by a family member. At one point, everyone around the table stood to give a toast to celebrate the evening.

Smith went last, thanking everyone and declaring that entire group his agents included were a "family" that would stay together his entire career, if not the rest of his life, the sources said. Smith, who at one point was expecting to be the No. 1 overall pick and at least a top 10 selection, has big plans for his career. Smith, according to the sources, hopes to emulate players such as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers, putting himself cut above the rest of the quarterback fray.

The problem is that NFL types see a guy who, right now, doesn't understand how to get there.

"His biggest problem is that he doesn't know what he doesn't know," said a league executive, who spent extensive time assessing Smith before the draft.

"I'm not sure he knows how to take instruction because he pretty much wouldn't listen or talk to our coaches he's talented. He can sling it, he can fit it into tight spots, he can do a lot of things and I think he wants to be good. But you can't tell him anything right now. He's tuned out because he thinks he's got it all down."

---

One possible factor in Smith dropping to the second round is a concern about leadership.

"He doesn't have much presence, not much of a leader," said another league executive, who spent a great deal of time studying Smith before the draft. "I don't think he's a bad person, but that's not enough to be a quarterback in this league."

Two sources indicated that when Smith went on some visits to teams, rather than interact with coaches and front-office people, he would spend much of his time on his cell phone. Instead of being engaged with team officials, he would be texting friends or reading Twitter or a number of other distracting activities.

"All these other players who were in there were talking to the coaches, trying to get to know people and he was over there by himself," one of the sources said. "That's not what you want out of your quarterback."

Both sources indicated that Florida State's E.J. Manuel, who was selected ahead of Smith at No. 16 overall by Buffalo, was far more impressive in terms of his personality and maturity.

"Manuel gets it, he gets the whole big picture of what it takes to lead a team," one of the league executives said.

---

By Sunday, Smith was being convinced by other friends that it was the fault of his agents that he slipped so much in the draft, according to one of the sources.

"Right now, he's blaming everybody but himself and he has some buddies around him who are telling him that same thing," the source said.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:38 AM   #301
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let me put it this way

in terms of actual production and the fact they were on the field

Kendrick Lewis and Brandon Carr were absolute stud finds...the fact we got Lewis in the 5th round and he gave us one *arguably* solid year and another decent year?

Total steal.

but everyone always expects a Carr in the 5th round and that happening is literally a 1/15 shot.

Jared Allen? Ha.

It just isn't likely.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:38 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Hootie View Post
I don't care if Geno goes on to be the greatest QB of all time.

CLEARLY, 100%

CP overrated him as a draft prospect.

He has no comparison to Cam Newton. Cam Newton ended up being a blue chip prospect.

Geno wasn't.

This was proven on draft day.

Will the scouts be right? They were right about Clausen. They were clearly wrong about Russell Wilson. Pertaining to QB's? There are 1000 Geno's and Clausen's who fail and very few Russell's or Brady's.

the fact Geno fell to 39 (or whatever) is hilarious given how many posts we wasted on that idiot

it still cracks me up

...and CP can't even complain because he was taken in the 2nd ****ing round
If the Jets hadn't of taken him he probably would have fell to the third.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:39 AM   #303
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that's why I was laughing about Barkley

people were pining for him in the 4th round...saying we had to take him

well hello?!!?? If we didn't take him 2 spots earlier we certainly weren't going to take him then...

I have serious doubts we had any QB's on our draft boards.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:09 AM   #304
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Gee whiz, this sounds a whole lot like that Nolan Nawrocki scouting report that the vaGeno mafia was pooh-poohing



Barkley, Smith scouting reports

Nolan Nawrocki
nnawrocki@pfwmedia.com
Senior editor

Posted April 01, 2013 @ 2:32 p.m. ET
By Nolan Nawrocki

QB Geno Smith, #12
West Virginia
PFW Grade: 5.39
Ht: 6-23/8 | Wt: 218 | Sp: 4.59 | Arm: 321/2 | Hand: 91/4

Notes: His cousin, Melvin Bratton, was a star running back for the Miami Hurricanes in the late 1980s. The Florida prep was a Parade All-American selection after throwing for over 3,000 yards and 32 touchdowns. Saw limited action in five games as a true freshman in 2009, completing 32-of-49 passes for 309 yards (65.3 percent) with one touchdown and one interception while playing through a broken fifth metatarsal in his left foot for part of the season. Took over as the starter in ’10 and tossed 241-372-2,763-24-7 (64.8) in 13 starts. Was the first West Virginia QB in 12 years to throw for over 2,500 yards in a season. Garnered heavy recognition for ’11 season, setting the Big East Conference and school mark for passing yards with 346-526-4,385-31-7 (65.8), in addition to becoming the first Mountaineer QB in history and only the second Big East player to surpass 4,000 yards in a season in 13 starts. Named Orange Bowl MVP after throwing for 407 yards and six touchdowns against Clemson. Set the school record and led the Big 12 Conference in touchdown passes in ’12 after tossing 369-518-4,205-42-6 (a conference-leading 71.2) in 13 starts. Threw for 656 yards and eight touchdowns in a 70-63 shootout victory against Baylor. Had a 26-13 record in 39 career starts.

Positives: Has a strong arm and can rifle the ball with good velocity into tight windows. Can throw with accuracy on the move and layer the deep ball. Good overall accuracy, ball placement and touch, especially on the fade route. Throws a very catchable ball — spins it tightly. Good escapability — can sidestep the rush, find an open throwing window and extend plays with his feet when needed. Outstanding straight-line speed — clocked the best 40-yard time (4.56 seconds) and broad jump (10-foot-4) of any quarterback at the Combine. Very durable, experienced, three-year starter — overcame an average offensive line, has never missed any time to injury and will play through pain.

Negatives: Operated an offense where he received adjustments from the sidelines and was often out of sync with receivers. Average field vision and coverage recognition — forces throws and does not work through progressions. Takes unnecessary sacks and does not feel pressure well. Not an elusive scrambler. Shaky lower-body mechanics — does not stand tall in the pocket (crouches, hops, dances and elevates to his toes when he throws). Has pin legs and bad pocket posture. Operated almost exclusively from the gun. Not a student of the game. Nonchalant field presence — does not command respect from teammates and cannot inspire. Mild practice demeanor — no urgency. Not committed or focused — marginal work ethic. Interviewed poorly at the Combine and did not show an understanding of concepts on the white board. Opted not to compete at the Senior Bowl and has approached offseason training as if he has already arrived and it shows in his body with minimal muscle definition or strength. Has small hands and glaring ball security issues (32 career fumbles). Really struggled handling the snow in Pinstripe Bowl (took two safeties) and will be troubled by the elements. Needed to be coddled in college — cannot handle hard coaching.

Summary: Started the season red-hot with the help of two playmaking receivers and created a national stir generating a lot of overexcitement in the scouting community. Quickly came down to earth after Kansas State disguised coverages and brought pressure he could not handle and he finished dropping six of his final eight games. A cross between Akili Smith and Aaron Brooks, Smith is a gimmick, overhyped product of the system lacking the football savvy, work habits and focus to cement a starting job and could drain energy from a QB room. Will be overdrafted and struggle to produce against NFL defensive complexities.

NFL projection: Top-50 pick.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:11 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootie View Post
CP will be a smarter place when they learn to properly evaluate draft picks.
1st round picks are important because you can't miss often with those...

after that?

Nope. Success rates for rounds 2-4 just aren't that great. We're talking 30%. 5-7 forget about it.

draft picks are important because you can control players for 4 years at a very cheap price and they fill roster spots 30-53 generally

you can't go pluck 20 veterans because they cost 4 times more than a 3rd round rookie

draft picks are great roster fillers...and some of them turn out to be total steals

but draft picks, especially 4-7th rounders...are all lottery picks...if they work out, omg awesome whoa! If they don't...that's what happens to everyone.

Go look.
Well you have to play the odds. We all know that to have your best chance to win a SB that you have to draft a QB in the 1st round. To bad for Geno because his odds of leading a team to the SB just went down considerably.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:14 AM   #306
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Sanchez has The Jets have more playoff wins than the Chiefs do since winning the Super Bowl.

FYP.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:19 AM   #307
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FYP.
Huh? Did you not watch the games? The Jets D got them there, but he was a big part in winning those playoff games.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #308
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Anyone who lists a quarterback that we should have taken over say Tyson Jackson, Dorsey, Baldwin, etc. should probably list the next QB taken – not the best QB taken with benefit of hindsight.
Ok I'll do it then since you're all having too much fun circle jerking. Also because I'm curious.

Going back to 2000, here's the next QB that was taken after the Chiefs drafted. I think this is a much more fair measure than just picking the best QB in hindsight. I mean I know you're all brilliant GMs who definitely wanted Freeman over Sanchez at the time, but let's stick to what NFL GMs who actually spent approx. infitily more time analyzing the players came up with. I also listed the QBs we could have potentially traded up for, and the ones who were out of reach.

2012 1.11 Dontari Poe NT Memphis
Next QB: 1.22 Brandon Weeden
Prev QBs (we could have possibly traded up for): 1.8 Ryan Tannehill, 1.2 RGII (if we give away the farm)
Out of reach: 1.1 Luck

2011 1.26 Jonathan Baldwin WR Pittsburgh
Next QB: 2.35 Andy Dalton
Prev possible QBs: 1.8 Jake Locker, 1.10 Blaine Gabbert, 1.12 Christian Ponder (any of those would have probably cost a 2012 #1, also barf)
Out of reach: 1.1 Cam Newton

2010 1.5 Eric Berry SS Tennessee
Next QB: 1.25 Tim Tebow
(ok I'll grant McDaniels is insane, next QB after that? 2.48 Jimmy Clausen)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Bradford

2009 1.3 Tyson Jackson DE Louisiana State

Next QB: 1.5 Mark Sanchez (Freeman after that)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Stafford

2008 1.5 Glenn Dorsey DT Louisiana State
Next QB: none until we draft again
2008 1.15 Branden Albert T Virginia
Next QB: 1.18 Joe Flacco (considered a big reach by most, but yeah a very good argument for "reaching" for a QB)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.3 Ryan

2007 1.23 Dwayne Bowe WR Louisiana State
Next QB: 2.36 Kevin Kolb
Prev possible QBs: 1.22 Brady Quinn
Out of reach: 1.1 JaWalrus (dammit!)

2006 1.20 Tamba Hali DE Penn State

Next QB: 2.49 Kellen Clemens
Prev possible QBs: 1.10 Matt Leinart, 1.11 Jay Cutler
Out of reach: 1.3 Vince Young

2005 1.15 Derrick Johnson LB Texas
Next QB: 1.24 Aaron Rodgers
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Alex Smith

2004 2.36 Junior Siavii
Next QB: 3.90 Matt Schaub (damn)
Prev possible QBs: 1.22 JP Lossman, 1.11 Big Rape (maybe if we trade a #1)
Out of reach: 1.1 Eli, 1.4 Rivers

2003 1.27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State
Next QB: 3.88 Dave Ragone
Prev possible QBs: 1.19 Kyle Boller, 1.22 Rex Grossman, 1.7 Byron Leftwich (maybe for a #1)
Out of reach: 1.1 Carson Palmer

2002 6 Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
Next QB: 1.32 Patrick Ramsey
Prev possible QBs: 1.3 Joey Harrington
Out of reach: 1.1 David Carr

2001 3.75 Eric Downing DT Syracuse
Next QB: 4.106 Chris Wienkie
Prev possible QBs: 2.1 Drew Brees, 2.53 Quincy Carter, 2.59 Marques Tuiasosopo (guessing not drafted as QB?)
Out of reach: 1.1 Michael Vick,

2000 1.21 Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
Next QB: 3.65 Giovanni Carmazzi
Prev possible QBs: 1.18 Chad Pennington (I'm sure everyone here was screaming for Tom Brady at 6.199)
Out of reach: None


All in all there's a lot of crap out there. I'm not saying I'm happy with the Chiefs by any means. But I think it's easy to cherry pick the spots like Flacco, Rodgers, Freeman and Brees, and forget about all the ones we dodged like butt-fumble, Jafatass, Young, Quinn, Jason Campbell, Clausen, etc. or all the years there just wasn't crap to pick from (like many are predicting for this year).
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #309
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Can this thread be moved to a Jets forum...?
Just move it to DC...
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:24 AM   #310
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:25 AM   #311
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Andy Reid and John Dorsey have apparently spent the entire offseason holed up in *****'s basement pulling bong hits, playing D & D, and scheming on the best way to ensure that the Chiefs will be 8-8 for the next 40 years. If you believe the Genobators, that is the more likely option than there not being a decent QB in this draft.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:26 AM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Ok I'll do it then since you're all having too much fun circle jerking. Also because I'm curious.

Going back to 2000, here's the next QB that was taken after the Chiefs drafted. I think this is a much more fair measure than just picking the best QB in hindsight. I mean I know you're all brilliant GMs who definitely wanted Freeman over Sanchez at the time, but let's stick to what NFL GMs who actually spent approx. infitily more time analyzing the players came up with. I also listed the QBs we could have potentially traded up for, and the ones who were out of reach.

2012 1.11 Dontari Poe NT Memphis
Next QB: 1.22 Brandon Weeden
Prev QBs (we could have possibly traded up for): 1.8 Ryan Tannehill, 1.2 RGII (if we give away the farm)
Out of reach: 1.1 Luck

2011 1.26 Jonathan Baldwin WR Pittsburgh
Next QB: 2.35 Andy Dalton
Prev possible QBs: 1.8 Jake Locker, 1.10 Blaine Gabbert, 1.12 Christian Ponder (any of those would have probably cost a 2012 #1, also barf)
Out of reach: 1.1 Cam Newton

2010 1.5 Eric Berry SS Tennessee
Next QB: 1.25 Tim Tebow
(ok I'll grant McDaniels is insane, next QB after that? 2.48 Jimmy Clausen)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Bradford

2009 1.3 Tyson Jackson DE Louisiana State

Next QB: 1.5 Mark Sanchez (Freeman after that)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Stafford

2008 1.5 Glenn Dorsey DT Louisiana State
Next QB: none until we draft again
2008 1.15 Branden Albert T Virginia
Next QB: 1.18 Joe Flacco (considered a big reach by most, but yeah a very good argument for "reaching" for a QB)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.3 Ryan

2007 1.23 Dwayne Bowe WR Louisiana State
Next QB: 2.36 Kevin Kolb
Prev possible QBs: 1.22 Brady Quinn
Out of reach: 1.1 JaWalrus (dammit!)

2006 1.20 Tamba Hali DE Penn State

Next QB: 2.49 Kellen Clemens
Prev possible QBs: 1.10 Matt Leinart, 1.11 Jay Cutler
Out of reach: 1.3 Vince Young

2005 1.15 Derrick Johnson LB Texas
Next QB: 1.24 Aaron Rodgers
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Alex Smith

2004 2.36 Junior Siavii
Next QB: 3.90 Matt Schaub (damn)
Prev possible QBs: 1.22 JP Lossman, 1.11 Big Rape (maybe if we trade a #1)
Out of reach: 1.1 Eli, 1.4 Rivers

2003 1.27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State
Next QB: 3.88 Dave Ragone
Prev possible QBs: 1.19 Kyle Boller, 1.22 Rex Grossman, 1.7 Byron Leftwich (maybe for a #1)
Out of reach: 1.1 Carson Palmer

2002 6 Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
Next QB: 1.32 Patrick Ramsey
Prev possible QBs: 1.3 Joey Harrington
Out of reach: 1.1 David Carr

2001 3.75 Eric Downing DT Syracuse
Next QB: 4.106 Chris Wienkie
Prev possible QBs: 2.1 Drew Brees, 2.53 Quincy Carter, 2.59 Marques Tuiasosopo (guessing not drafted as QB?)
Out of reach: 1.1 Michael Vick,

2000 1.21 Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
Next QB: 3.65 Giovanni Carmazzi
Prev possible QBs: 1.18 Chad Pennington (I'm sure everyone here was screaming for Tom Brady at 6.199)
Out of reach: None


All in all there's a lot of crap out there. I'm not saying I'm happy with the Chiefs by any means. But I think it's easy to cherry pick the spots like Flacco, Rodgers, Freeman and Brees, and forget about all the ones we dodged like butt-fumble, Jafatass, Young, Quinn, Jason Campbell, Clausen, etc. or all the years there just wasn't crap to pick from (like many are predicting for this year).
Outstanding post. This may be the first time I've seen this data. Good arguments to be made on both sides.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:30 AM   #313
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Ok I'll do it then since you're all having too much fun circle jerking. Also because I'm curious.

Going back to 2000, here's the next QB that was taken after the Chiefs drafted. I think this is a much more fair measure than just picking the best QB in hindsight. I mean I know you're all brilliant GMs who definitely wanted Freeman over Sanchez at the time, but let's stick to what NFL GMs who actually spent approx. infitily more time analyzing the players came up with. I also listed the QBs we could have potentially traded up for, and the ones who were out of reach.

2012 1.11 Dontari Poe NT Memphis
Next QB: 1.22 Brandon Weeden
Prev QBs (we could have possibly traded up for): 1.8 Ryan Tannehill, 1.2 RGII (if we give away the farm)
Out of reach: 1.1 Luck

2011 1.26 Jonathan Baldwin WR Pittsburgh
Next QB: 2.35 Andy Dalton
Prev possible QBs: 1.8 Jake Locker, 1.10 Blaine Gabbert, 1.12 Christian Ponder (any of those would have probably cost a 2012 #1, also barf)
Out of reach: 1.1 Cam Newton

2010 1.5 Eric Berry SS Tennessee
Next QB: 1.25 Tim Tebow
(ok I'll grant McDaniels is insane, next QB after that? 2.48 Jimmy Clausen)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Bradford

2009 1.3 Tyson Jackson DE Louisiana State

Next QB: 1.5 Mark Sanchez (Freeman after that)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Stafford

2008 1.5 Glenn Dorsey DT Louisiana State
Next QB: none until we draft again
2008 1.15 Branden Albert T Virginia
Next QB: 1.18 Joe Flacco (considered a big reach by most, but yeah a very good argument for "reaching" for a QB)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.3 Ryan

2007 1.23 Dwayne Bowe WR Louisiana State
Next QB: 2.36 Kevin Kolb
Prev possible QBs: 1.22 Brady Quinn
Out of reach: 1.1 JaWalrus (dammit!)

2006 1.20 Tamba Hali DE Penn State

Next QB: 2.49 Kellen Clemens
Prev possible QBs: 1.10 Matt Leinart, 1.11 Jay Cutler
Out of reach: 1.3 Vince Young

2005 1.15 Derrick Johnson LB Texas
Next QB: 1.24 Aaron Rodgers
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Alex Smith

2004 2.36 Junior Siavii
Next QB: 3.90 Matt Schaub (damn)
Prev possible QBs: 1.22 JP Lossman, 1.11 Big Rape (maybe if we trade a #1)
Out of reach: 1.1 Eli, 1.4 Rivers

2003 1.27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State
Next QB: 3.88 Dave Ragone
Prev possible QBs: 1.19 Kyle Boller, 1.22 Rex Grossman, 1.7 Byron Leftwich (maybe for a #1)
Out of reach: 1.1 Carson Palmer

2002 6 Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
Next QB: 1.32 Patrick Ramsey
Prev possible QBs: 1.3 Joey Harrington
Out of reach: 1.1 David Carr

2001 3.75 Eric Downing DT Syracuse
Next QB: 4.106 Chris Wienkie
Prev possible QBs: 2.1 Drew Brees, 2.53 Quincy Carter, 2.59 Marques Tuiasosopo (guessing not drafted as QB?)
Out of reach: 1.1 Michael Vick,

2000 1.21 Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
Next QB: 3.65 Giovanni Carmazzi
Prev possible QBs: 1.18 Chad Pennington (I'm sure everyone here was screaming for Tom Brady at 6.199)
Out of reach: None


All in all there's a lot of crap out there. I'm not saying I'm happy with the Chiefs by any means. But I think it's easy to cherry pick the spots like Flacco, Rodgers, Freeman and Brees, and forget about all the ones we dodged like butt-fumble, Jafatass, Young, Quinn, Jason Campbell, Clausen, etc. or all the years there just wasn't crap to pick from (like many are predicting for this year).

Wow.

A damning list as far as Genobators and Drafturbators go.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:30 AM   #314
King_Chief_Fan King_Chief_Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Chief Roundup View Post
This.
It was so much more than just Sanchez. It was also symbolic of the knowledge that is Chiefs Planet QB guru.
those supposedly CP QB gurus are taking a real butt kicking....
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:37 AM   #315
philfree philfree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
those supposedly CP QB gurus are taking a real butt kicking....
Yeah their resume' for being an NFL scout is not very good when it comes to evaluating QBs.
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