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Old 05-01-2013, 08:02 PM  
tk13 tk13 is offline
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Why Geno Smith fell in the draft

I've seen a couple other posts about this... but this probably deserves it's own thread considering how many hours we've wasted arguing about the guy. This is the first article I've seen theorizing why Geno fell in the draft. Time will tell whether it's accurate.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--ge...183846651.html

Quote:
On April 23, Smith, his agents, some family members and several friends gathered for dinner in New York in advance of the draft, a gathering confirmed by a family member. At one point, everyone around the table stood to give a toast to celebrate the evening.

Smith went last, thanking everyone and declaring that entire group his agents included were a "family" that would stay together his entire career, if not the rest of his life, the sources said. Smith, who at one point was expecting to be the No. 1 overall pick and at least a top 10 selection, has big plans for his career. Smith, according to the sources, hopes to emulate players such as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers, putting himself cut above the rest of the quarterback fray.

The problem is that NFL types see a guy who, right now, doesn't understand how to get there.

"His biggest problem is that he doesn't know what he doesn't know," said a league executive, who spent extensive time assessing Smith before the draft.

"I'm not sure he knows how to take instruction because he pretty much wouldn't listen or talk to our coaches he's talented. He can sling it, he can fit it into tight spots, he can do a lot of things and I think he wants to be good. But you can't tell him anything right now. He's tuned out because he thinks he's got it all down."

---

One possible factor in Smith dropping to the second round is a concern about leadership.

"He doesn't have much presence, not much of a leader," said another league executive, who spent a great deal of time studying Smith before the draft. "I don't think he's a bad person, but that's not enough to be a quarterback in this league."

Two sources indicated that when Smith went on some visits to teams, rather than interact with coaches and front-office people, he would spend much of his time on his cell phone. Instead of being engaged with team officials, he would be texting friends or reading Twitter or a number of other distracting activities.

"All these other players who were in there were talking to the coaches, trying to get to know people and he was over there by himself," one of the sources said. "That's not what you want out of your quarterback."

Both sources indicated that Florida State's E.J. Manuel, who was selected ahead of Smith at No. 16 overall by Buffalo, was far more impressive in terms of his personality and maturity.

"Manuel gets it, he gets the whole big picture of what it takes to lead a team," one of the league executives said.

---

By Sunday, Smith was being convinced by other friends that it was the fault of his agents that he slipped so much in the draft, according to one of the sources.

"Right now, he's blaming everybody but himself and he has some buddies around him who are telling him that same thing," the source said.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:51 PM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Great post by suzzer in #310. It shows how hard it is to get a franchise quarterback. Alternately, it shows why a team should plan to continually invest draft picks in quarterbacks. You're going to miss on a lot of them, so you have to draft a lot of them.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:52 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What are you talking about? Those guys weren't even on the team.
You said he had a strong performance in the last few years. He's been continually benched for scrubs like Sullivan and Carr in recent years and then finally lost his job for good when Kaepernick outplayed him.

I know you'd like to conveniently ignore everything besides his fluke 2011 season, but Smiff was so bad at one point that Niner fans were cheering David Carr's name during games and demanding that some no-name scrub Nate Davis get playing time over him.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:57 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by GoChargers View Post
You said he had a strong performance in the last few years. He's been continually benched for scrubs like Sullivan and Carr in recent years and then finally lost his job for good when Kaepernick outplayed him.

I know you'd like to conveniently ignore everything besides his fluke 2011 season, but Smiff was so bad at one point that Niner fans were cheering David Carr's name during games and demanding that some no-name scrub Nate Davis get playing time over him.
I said "the past couple of years", not the last few years. Neither of those guys were on the team during that period. We're talking about the Harbaugh years here, not the terrible wasteland periods under Mike Singletary or any of the other failures out there. Enjoy your strawman.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:12 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy View Post
Tannehill could have been had fairly easy as well.
I still don't think he is anything special.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:28 PM   #380
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It seems Geno was made more than he is, by his receivers, not the other way around.

He did a lot of dumping balls off while the receivers created YAC inflating his numbers.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:33 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Molitoth View Post
I still don't think he is anything special.
I'd take him over the combination of Poe and Allen or Stephenson.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:20 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoChargers View Post
You said he had a strong performance in the last few years. He's been continually benched for scrubs like Sullivan and Carr in recent years and then finally lost his job for good when Kaepernick outplayed him.

I know you'd like to conveniently ignore everything besides his fluke 2011 season, but Smiff was so bad at one point that Niner fans were cheering David Carr's name during games and demanding that some no-name scrub Nate Davis get playing time over him.

Don't you have your own whiny douche bag QB to go bitch about with the other 6 Chargers fans in existence?
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:55 PM   #383
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If it's true that Geno has a bit of an attitude problem (and there's a lot of smoke leading you to believe it's a bigger problem than we thought), then I really don't care if we passed him up. I was all about grabbing him at 1.1. But it's pretty amazing how stuck people are on trying to defend the guy. There's plenty of smoke that leads you to believe maybe he's not the character guy we thought he was.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:08 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Andy Reid apparently disagrees with you on this. And given both Alex Smith's strong performance over the past couple of years and the unmistakable vote of non-confidence in this rookie QB class by all 32 NFL teams we just witnessed, I'm going to have to go with Andy Reid's opinion over BigCatDaddy's.
I'm willing to bet that, unlike BigCatDaddy, Andy Reid knows the difference between "then" and "than." Understanding that distinction will come in handy when comparing QBs.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #385
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Here's a little something from over at JetsInsider, to help stoke the conversation:

Quote:
Stephen A. Smith on ESPN First Take today:

"I have somebody incredibly connected to the NFL, works in the NFL, works with numerous players. You know what he texted me with this morning, and called Geno Smith? He called him the black Ryan Leaf. He says if he doesn’t get his act together, that’s what he’s going to end up being, because his mouth is going to get him in trouble because he doesn’t have the game to match it….I think Geno Smith needs to hear that so he can guard against it and get his mind right so he can perform. So that’s what people in the NFL are saying about you, Geno. Take notice and make sure you don’t give them ammunition to think like that."

At the 32:00 mark in this podcast:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9235272
http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/sh...68&postcount=1
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:10 PM   #386
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Maybe the Jets will bring in Terrell Owens. By mid-season would should hear quite a bit about Geno.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:12 PM   #387
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If all of this new information is true, then it makes a bunch of sense.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:20 PM   #388
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Really, all we outside prognosticators can do is look at the tape and watch the combine. It's not like we have access to all the information. Based on the tape, I would have taken Geno at 1.1. No shame in admitting it. At least I advocated for a position and put in the work to back it up. People here are renowned for coming out of the woodwork after the fact and sniping those who actually do their own "work." **** em.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:27 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Ok I'll do it then since you're all having too much fun circle jerking. Also because I'm curious.

Going back to 2000, here's the next QB that was taken after the Chiefs drafted. I think this is a much more fair measure than just picking the best QB in hindsight. I mean I know you're all brilliant GMs who definitely wanted Freeman over Sanchez at the time, but let's stick to what NFL GMs who actually spent approx. infitily more time analyzing the players came up with. I also listed the QBs we could have potentially traded up for, and the ones who were out of reach.

2012 1.11 Dontari Poe NT Memphis
Next QB: 1.22 Brandon Weeden
Prev QBs (we could have possibly traded up for): 1.8 Ryan Tannehill, 1.2 RGII (if we give away the farm)
Out of reach: 1.1 Luck

2011 1.26 Jonathan Baldwin WR Pittsburgh
Next QB: 2.35 Andy Dalton
Prev possible QBs: 1.8 Jake Locker, 1.10 Blaine Gabbert, 1.12 Christian Ponder (any of those would have probably cost a 2012 #1, also barf)
Out of reach: 1.1 Cam Newton

2010 1.5 Eric Berry SS Tennessee
Next QB: 1.25 Tim Tebow
(ok I'll grant McDaniels is insane, next QB after that? 2.48 Jimmy Clausen)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Bradford

2009 1.3 Tyson Jackson DE Louisiana State

Next QB: 1.5 Mark Sanchez (Freeman after that)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Stafford

2008 1.5 Glenn Dorsey DT Louisiana State
Next QB: none until we draft again
2008 1.15 Branden Albert T Virginia
Next QB: 1.18 Joe Flacco (considered a big reach by most, but yeah a very good argument for "reaching" for a QB)
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.3 Ryan

2007 1.23 Dwayne Bowe WR Louisiana State
Next QB: 2.36 Kevin Kolb
Prev possible QBs: 1.22 Brady Quinn
Out of reach: 1.1 JaWalrus (dammit!)

2006 1.20 Tamba Hali DE Penn State

Next QB: 2.49 Kellen Clemens
Prev possible QBs: 1.10 Matt Leinart, 1.11 Jay Cutler
Out of reach: 1.3 Vince Young

2005 1.15 Derrick Johnson LB Texas
Next QB: 1.24 Aaron Rodgers
Prev possible QBs: None
Out of reach: 1.1 Alex Smith

2004 2.36 Junior Siavii
Next QB: 3.90 Matt Schaub (damn)
Prev possible QBs: 1.22 JP Lossman, 1.11 Big Rape (maybe if we trade a #1)
Out of reach: 1.1 Eli, 1.4 Rivers

2003 1.27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State
Next QB: 3.88 Dave Ragone
Prev possible QBs: 1.19 Kyle Boller, 1.22 Rex Grossman, 1.7 Byron Leftwich (maybe for a #1)
Out of reach: 1.1 Carson Palmer

2002 6 Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
Next QB: 1.32 Patrick Ramsey
Prev possible QBs: 1.3 Joey Harrington
Out of reach: 1.1 David Carr

2001 3.75 Eric Downing DT Syracuse
Next QB: 4.106 Chris Wienkie
Prev possible QBs: 2.1 Drew Brees, 2.53 Quincy Carter, 2.59 Marques Tuiasosopo (guessing not drafted as QB?)
Out of reach: 1.1 Michael Vick,

2000 1.21 Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
Next QB: 3.65 Giovanni Carmazzi
Prev possible QBs: 1.18 Chad Pennington (I'm sure everyone here was screaming for Tom Brady at 6.199)
Out of reach: None


All in all there's a lot of crap out there. I'm not saying I'm happy with the Chiefs by any means. But I think it's easy to cherry pick the spots like Flacco, Rodgers, Freeman and Brees, and forget about all the ones we dodged like butt-fumble, Jafatass, Young, Quinn, Jason Campbell, Clausen, etc. or all the years there just wasn't crap to pick from (like many are predicting for this year).
If you go through that list not every year was everybody screaming for a quarterback to be taken. The only true years that quarterback was a major need was 2001, 2009, and this year.

2001 traded our first round pick for Trent Green. It was an alright move, not great because Drew Brees was the quarterback that was there for our pick and was top of our draft board. So the Chiefs ****ed up there.

2005, Rodgers fall was pretty unexpected. Most mocks had him going top 10 at the very least. Derrick Johnson was a major woody for everybody and we were duped into thinking we needed to tweak the defense for a Super Bowl run. Short sighted move on the Chiefs part though but that was the Vermeil years in general.

2008 taking Albert over Flacco. Flacco was considered a reach by many. Not to mention the Chiefs weren' done with the Brodie experiment just yet.

2009 major **** up with the Cassel trade. Worthless POS from February 28, 2009 when it happened. ****ed up everything. Chiefs are lucky we didn't get into major salary cap issues because of it. Giving 63 million to Cassell and then 57 to Jackson was stupid. Starting quarterback contracts are a given so that isn't that bad even if Sanchez would have gotten the 57 that Jackson got, we could have used Cassel's contract to help improve the team in other areas such as a 3-4 DE, etc. That would have been around 12 millon a year. Not to mention we could have gotten a productive player at the top of round 2 in the draft. Good chance we could have been better because we couldn't have gotten any worst than we are right now.

Brees, Rodgers, Flaaco, and Sanchez. Thats the 4 we had a shot and passed and out of those it was really just Brees and Sanchez, who we passed on for Green and Cassel.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:30 PM   #390
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No, we flat out passed on Flacco and Rodgers. No question. Our GMs were bright enough that they thought we couldn't use a talented QB, despite the fact we had a crusty-ass vet (like the Packers did with Favre at the time) and NOTHING at QB in the case of the 2008 draft.

Straight up **** ups.
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