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Old 05-03-2013, 05:31 PM  
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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Keep Stone Mountain carving a Confederate Memorial

A young man asked me why do they want to change the carving at Stone Mountain Park?



The question should also be why do some people continue to try erasing history? There is a petition drive to change the beautiful historic carving at Stone Mountain Memorial Park near Atlanta, Georgia? See news story from 11 Alive of Atlanta, Georgia including their interview with me. A special thank you to Mr. Dan Coleman who participated in the debate that followed.

Read what I said including, “Like previous campaigns criticizing other Confederate Memorials, he sees the petition to remove the carving of Jefferson, Lee and Jackson as an attack on the truth.”

A online poll currently shows 95 percent of the people want to keep the Stone Mountain Carving of our heroes Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson as it is.

Let me caution you with this poll that we also won most of the polls for the 1956 Georgia “Soldier’s Memorial flag” our official State flag of Georgia conceived by Judge John Sammons Bells that was unceremoniously taken down in 2001. They did not listen to the people of Georgia back then.

Mississippian’s however, were allowed to vote on their 1890s State flag, that also includes the Confederate Battle flag in the design, and they chose to keep it. Georgian’s were allowed to vote on a State flag but their 1956 flag with the Confederate flag it its design, was excluded in the vote. Democracy was at work in Mississippi but not Georgia.

Stone Mountain has been filmed many times including in the 1954 movie “A Man called Peter” starring Richard Todd as Reverend Peter Marshall and Jean Peters as his wife.

Take the time to learn about the South’s President Jefferson Davis, Gen. Robert E. Lee and Gen. Stonewall Jackson who died 150 years ago on May 10, 1863 and share with your family.

Jefferson and wife Varina Davis adopted a Black child, Jim Limber Davis, in February 1864 and…

Booker T. Washington, America’s great Black-American Educator wrote in 1910, ‘The first white people in America, certainly the first in the South to exhibit their interest in the reaching of the Negro and saving his soul through the medium of the Sunday-school were Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson.”

Let’s not erase history!


http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/54938


A native of Georgia, Calvin Johnson, Chairman of the National and Georgia Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Confederate History Month Committee—-Scv.org lives near the historic town of Kennesaw and he’s a member of the Chattahoochee Guards Camp, Sons of Confederate Veterans. He is the author of the book “When America Stood for God, Family and Country.” Calvin can be reached at: cjohnson1861@bellsouth.net

Last edited by Comrade Crapski; 05-07-2013 at 08:56 AM..
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:58 AM   #121
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Abraham Lincoln on defending slave owners’ right to own their property-
"when they remind us of their constitutional rights [to own slaves], I acknowledge them, not grudgingly but fully and fairly; and I would give them any legislation for the claiming of their fugitives" (in indicating support for the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850)."
That the war was to preserve the union-
"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." ... My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
On Emancipation Proclamation (applied only to states in rebellion not those states that were in open rebellion)-
"The original proclamation has no...legal justification, except as a military measure."
Was used just to weaken the rebellious states. Meanwhile, Union commanders owned slaves.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:00 AM   #122
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Repost

"Honest" Abe is just a lot of propaganda:
(1) He ruled like a thug and a dictator: shot and killed war protestors ( Gangs of NY movie is about this)...jailed the rest of them even if they were in Congress! He arrested tens of thousands of political opponents, and the shut down of hundreds of opposition newspapers. Telegraph communication was censored. He squashed all dissent.
(2)He also suspended the writ of habeus corpus and even issued an arrest warrant for Chief Justice Roger B. Taney the judge issued an opinion that only Congress, not the president, can suspend the writ of habeas corpus under the Constitution. Lincoln declared the writ null and void and ordered the military to begin imprisoning thousands of political dissenters.
(3) He was actually a lawyer for large powerful corporate interests--a wealthy railroad lawyer, before being elected president. He believed in corporate welfare.
(4) He passed the first income tax that was later declared unconstitutional.
(5) He nationalized the money supply.
(6) He only wrote the Gettysburg address to keep England from coming to aid of the South in which case they might have won the war.
(7) He did not oppose slavery in all states.
(8) Lincoln was an extreme white supremacist:
(a) As early as 1840 he "denounced the Democratic presidential candidate Martin Van Buren for supporting black voting rights in New York."
(b) Lincoln had lifelong obsession with "colonization," and deportation of all black people from America.
(c) He favored the creation of an all-white America. This was one of the main reasons Lincoln gave for his opposition to the extension of slavery into the Territories – to keep them all white. It was his well-known white-supremacist views, that explains his rise politically as a leader of the Free Soil movement whose goal was a white West.
(9) Elections were rigged, and new states were created illegally to add to the incumbent government’s electoral college vote count.
(10) Fourteenth Amendment was illegally passed without the necessary votes.
(11) He failed to end slavery peacefully like other nations of his time did (such as England and Spain).
(12) Hitler himself invoked Lincoln’s first inaugural address in Mein Kampf, when he made the case for destroying states’ rights and federalism in Germany.
(13)He was an advocate of a centralized banking monopoly, and of corporations that were closely associated with and subsequently controlled by the state. Mussolini later adopted the same policies, as did imperial Japan. Good ole "honest" Abe of the 19th Century set the stage for the idea of facism in the 20th Century.

Yet court historians ( those annointed by the state) have made Lincoln out as some kind of hero of the Constitution. The most whitewashed president in US History.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:01 AM   #123
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Force always attracts men of low morality." ~Albert Einstein

"In war, truth is the first casualty."~Aeschylus

"People do not make wars; governments do."~Ronald Reagan
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:07 AM   #124
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Here's another fact:

Some 300 opposition newspapers in the North were shut down by Lincoln. Some journalists and even congressmen were jailed for being opposed to his war.

This is the context that loneiguana uses to claim Lincoln's war was valid and supported.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:08 AM   #125
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Also there's no such thing as "nullification" of the Supreme Court. Where on earth did you conjure up such a dream?
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:16 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
You're getting desperate now, since you weren't aware the Constitution granted Judiciary this power. So you're reduced to admitting the Constitution itself doesn't really matter after all, what with all that "bias" and potential for errors.



Why don't you just tap out, cry uncle and admit you want to trash the Constitution every bit as much as the Libs do?
The constitution doesn't grant the judiciary the power to decide what constitutes a case or controversy between the states, that's a legislative function. It just gives them to power to deal with cases and controversies that arise "under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties".

That means the constitution has to either say that secession is forbidden or grant Congress the power to say whether or not it's forbidden (leaving aside the treaty option for simplicity). It does neither of those things.

Better get back to your prison law library and brush up some more.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:25 AM   #127
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I'm no big fan of the Civil War South, and I'm certainly not getting in to the Lincoln argument, but I will never support the erasing of historical monuments or destruction of antiquities because they're not popular any more. When Egypt was rioting a few years ago, combatants from both sides (mostly) left the museums intact, thankfully, and those that smash-and-grabbed a few things were treated as pariahs by everyone, as they should have been. The Taliban was universally scolded for destroying the Buddha statues in Afghanistan, and the more recent Al-Qaeda targeting of Timbuktu is shameful. No one here is advocating blasting the faces off of Mount Rushmore, even though carving the images of our leaders into the Sioux's holy lands is seriously insensitive.

This would be a violation in the highest order, regardless of how we feel now about the South and slavery and whether or not Davis and Lee and Jackson were good people. Flags can be reverted, if we someday want to; mountain-sized statues are gone for good.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:34 AM   #128
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More Facts for the Originalist View of a Voluntary Union

The founding fathers' fears about the federal government using force against a state can be seen in Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution itself, wherein they stipulated that there could be no federal intervention in a state to "protect" the state against "domestic violence" unless the state's legislature or governor requested such intervention:
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Constitutional scholar and former law professor John Remington Graham discusses the framers' refusal to allow the federal government to use force against a state and the reflection of this refusal in IV:4:
It is an historical fact that, on two occasions during their deliberations, the framers in the Philadelphia Convention voted to deny Congress the power of calling forth military forces of the Union to compel obedience of a state, and on two further occasions they voted to deny Congress the power of sending the Federal army or navy into the territory of any state, except as allowed under Article IV, Section 4 of the United States Constitution--to repel a foreign invasion or at the request of its legislature or governor to deal with domestic violence. (A Constitutional History of Secession, Gretna, Louisiana: Pelican Publishing Company, 2002, p. 287)

To make the case even more concrete, we find the following explanation of IV:4 by James Madison in the Records of the Federal Convention, where Madison specified that state application was necessary before the federal government could intervene to protect a state against "internal commotion":
2. The guarantee [of IV:4] is

1. to prevent the establishment of any government, not republican

3. to protect each state against internal commotion: and

2. against external invasion.

4. But this guarantee shall not operate in the last Case without an application from the legislature of a state. (Records of the Federal Convention, 2:182, 188; Madison, 6 Aug. 1787)
Reposted link:
http://michaelgriffith1.tripod.com/voluntary.htm
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:55 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The constitution doesn't grant the judiciary the power to decide what constitutes a case or controversy between the states, that's a legislative function. It just gives them to power to deal with cases and controversies that arise "under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties".

That means the constitution has to either say that secession is forbidden or grant Congress the power to say whether or not it's forbidden (leaving aside the treaty option for simplicity). It does neither of those things.

Better get back to your prison law library and brush up some more.


Since you were asleep during the actual conversation, Buc said that there were no "enumerated rights" to prevent secession. Article III of the Constitution absolutely dismisses her idea without debate. Any attempt to secede would be met with a court challenge and the Judiciary would decide it (just as they did in Texas v. White).


Stay focused Patteu. Stay focused.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:22 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
I'm no big fan of the Civil War South, and I'm certainly not getting in to the Lincoln argument, but I will never support the erasing of historical monuments or destruction of antiquities because they're not popular any more. When Egypt was rioting a few years ago, combatants from both sides (mostly) left the museums intact, thankfully, and those that smash-and-grabbed a few things were treated as pariahs by everyone, as they should have been. The Taliban was universally scolded for destroying the Buddha statues in Afghanistan, and the more recent Al-Qaeda targeting of Timbuktu is shameful. No one here is advocating blasting the faces off of Mount Rushmore, even though carving the images of our leaders into the Sioux's holy lands is seriously insensitive.

This would be a violation in the highest order, regardless of how we feel now about the South and slavery and whether or not Davis and Lee and Jackson were good people. Flags can be reverted, if we someday want to; mountain-sized statues are gone for good.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:23 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Since you were asleep during the actual conversation, Buc said that there were no "enumerated rights" to prevent secession. Article III of the Constitution absolutely dismisses her idea without debate. Any attempt to secede would be met with a court challenge and the Judiciary would decide it (just as they did in Texas v. White).


Stay focused Patteu. Stay focused.
That's what my post (that you apparently didn't understand) was about. Your position is ludicrous.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:43 PM   #132
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Since Stone Mountain is owned by the same group that owns Dollywood and Silver Dollar City I'm curious if the petition has any meaning at all.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:01 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Abraham Lincoln on defending slave owners’ right to own their property-
"when they remind us of their constitutional rights [to own slaves], I acknowledge them, not grudgingly but fully and fairly; and I would give them any legislation for the claiming of their fugitives" (in indicating support for the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850)."
That the war was to preserve the union-
"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." ... My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
On Emancipation Proclamation (applied only to states in rebellion not those states that were in open rebellion)-
"The original proclamation has no...legal justification, except as a military measure."
Was used just to weaken the rebellious states. Meanwhile, Union commanders owned slaves.

Here class is a great example of how a history hack with an agenda distorts facts for their gain.

With the first example, BEP completely ignores the fact that slavery was constitutional, and Lincoln wished to end slavery through the States. The quote doesn't at all say Lincoln favored slavery, only that Lincoln understood the constitution.

BEP lies about history.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:12 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
That's what my post (that you apparently didn't understand) was about. Your position is ludicrous.
Secession has been decided doofus. Don't get mad at me for it.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:23 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
"Honest" Abe is just a lot of propaganda:
(1) He ruled like a thug and a dictator: shot and killed war protestors ( Gangs of NY movie is about this)...jailed the rest of them even if they were in Congress! He arrested tens of thousands of political opponents, and the shut down of hundreds of opposition newspapers. Telegraph communication was censored. He squashed all dissent.
(2)He also suspended the writ of habeus corpus and even issued an arrest warrant for Chief Justice Roger B. Taney the judge issued an opinion that only Congress, not the president, can suspend the writ of habeas corpus under the Constitution. Lincoln declared the writ null and void and ordered the military to begin imprisoning thousands of political dissenters.
(3) He was actually a lawyer for large powerful corporate interests--a wealthy railroad lawyer, before being elected president. He believed in corporate welfare.
(4) He passed the first income tax that was later declared unconstitutional.
(5) He nationalized the money supply.
(6) He only wrote the Gettysburg address to keep England from coming to aid of the South in which case they might have won the war.
(7) He did not oppose slavery in all states.
(8) Lincoln was an extreme white supremacist:
(a) As early as 1840 he "denounced the Democratic presidential candidate Martin Van Buren for supporting black voting rights in New York."
(b) Lincoln had lifelong obsession with "colonization," and deportation of all black people from America.
(c) He favored the creation of an all-white America. This was one of the main reasons Lincoln gave for his opposition to the extension of slavery into the Territories – to keep them all white. It was his well-known white-supremacist views, that explains his rise politically as a leader of the Free Soil movement whose goal was a white West.
(9) Elections were rigged, and new states were created illegally to add to the incumbent government’s electoral college vote count.
(10) Fourteenth Amendment was illegally passed without the necessary votes.
(11) He failed to end slavery peacefully like other nations of his time did (such as England and Spain).
(12) Hitler himself invoked Lincoln’s first inaugural address in Mein Kampf, when he made the case for destroying states’ rights and federalism in Germany.
(13)He was an advocate of a centralized banking monopoly, and of corporations that were closely associated with and subsequently controlled by the state. Mussolini later adopted the same policies, as did imperial Japan. Good ole "honest" Abe of the 19th Century set the stage for the idea of facism in the 20th Century.

Yet court historians ( those annointed by the state) have made Lincoln out as some kind of hero of the Constitution. The most whitewashed president in US History.

1) The Confederates did that too. Davis did everything you accuse Lincoln of doing.
2)The confederates suspended Corpus too. You also Lie about the extent of it. Lincoln was the reason a majority was released.
3)lol, citation please
4)The Confederates pass an income tax too
5)The Confederates attempted to nationalize their money supply too (War is expensive) They printed a large amount of paper money that was completely worthless.
6)LOL, England was never coming to the Confederates Aid. There certianly weren't coming after Lee's Defeat.
7) No he opposed all slavery. More lying.
8)LOL. You have absolutely no historical context of racism. More lies.
A) see 8. You supply no context
b) You attack him for colonization, but that is meaningless. Colorization was the most popular avenue for dealing with slavery during that time. You don't attack someone for not having 21st century ideals.
c)Complete lies
9)More lies
10) Lol. More lies.
11) Slavery could have been ended peacefully, but the south withdrew from the Union instead. Slavery was in our Constitution, it could not have been ended peacefully without the South themselves ending it. You also, in a another point, said that Lincoln didn't go to war to end slavery.
12) Hitler quoted Lincoln. OMG this changes everything!
13)The Confederates did the same thing

Confederate Tyranny:
1)Went to war to protect enslaving other humans
2) passed the first draft in the nation, using the federal government to force people to fight
3)The Confederate Government outright took goods and slaves from southerns for the War effort
4)the Confederate Government dictated to private ships (blockade runners) what cargo they are allowed to carry
5)Widespread taxation
Posts: 3,790
Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.
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