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Old 05-05-2013, 11:43 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Founding Father of the American Leviathan State

Abraham Lincoln

Time for school.

For all those who love liberty and limited government....as well as those who need to be schooled about gargantuan government...here is a course that lays it all out.


The course consists of five lectures of 45-60 minutes, followed by 30-45 minutes of Q&A. Everything is online of course, and the lectures and discussions are archived, so that you don't have to be physically there from 5:30 to 7:00 for the next five Thursdays. Here are the nightly topics:

WEEK 1: THE TRUTH ABOUT LINCOLN, RACE, AND SLAVERY

WEEK 2: WHY LINCOLN WAS ELECTED: THE FOUNDING FATHER OF CRONY CAPITALISM

WEEK 3: WAGING WAR ON THE CONSTITUTION: THE LINCOLN DICTATORSHIP

WEEK 4: FOUNDING FATHER OF THE AMERICAN WARFARE STATE

WEEK 5: THE LINCOLN CURSE: DICTATORSHIP, MILITARISM, AND ECONOMIC FASCISM

http://academy.mises.org/courses/lincoln/
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:39 AM   #31
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I didn't see anyone saying slavery wasn't a factor. You must be learning how to strawman. Afterall, Amnorix is one of the best at this form of argumentation and now we have Loneiguana. It seems to run more deeply on the progressive side of the political spectrum.
You used to argue that the war was fought over tariffs. If you have moved off the dime on that, then I commend you for giving up an argument that you hopelessly lost, repeatedly.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:41 AM   #32
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Is Amnorix saying things in this thread?
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“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:42 AM   #33
Donger Donger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Is Amnorix saying things in this thread?
Yeah, he's stomping you like a narc at a biker rally.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yeah, he's stomping you like a narc at a biker rally.
Yep.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:14 PM   #35
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yeah, he's stomping you like a narc at a biker rally.
No, he only thinks he is. He usually just twists words around, argues things different than stated. King of Strawman—waste of time. Hence on iggy for three years or more now.
You like big govt and empire, that's why you think this. Plus your uninformed on the era. I assure you, Amnorix doesn't have the guts to attend that group of classes. He'd be stomped on pretty hard. He'd be no match.
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“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 05-06-2013 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:15 PM   #36
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Yep.
Really? Should I get the post out where you put a thumbs up to me about Lincoln on some of these things from a few years back...where you thanked me for posting them?
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“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:26 PM   #37
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Strawman.

Explain to me how it is solely Lincolns fault a deal with the south could not be reached.

you said "He failed to use legendary political skills and rhetorical gifts to accomplish this". Why is it solely's Lincoln's fault?
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:30 PM   #38
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What "deal" was available? You can't negotiate with people who don't want to negotiate. What could he have offered other than retaining slavery?
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:33 PM   #39
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
What "deal" was available? You can't negotiate with people who don't want to negotiate. What could he have offered other than retaining slavery?
Full compensation. Slavers born before a certain date (usually in the future) will remain slaves. Colonization (the south didn't want free african americans). Gradual freedom over many decades. (sometimes up into the 1900's) Numerous other things.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:44 PM   #40
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
you said "He failed to use legendary political skills and rhetorical gifts to accomplish this". Why is it solely's Lincoln's fault?
I said that to a particular point—not in this generality you are now using.
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“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:48 PM   #41
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I said that to a particular point—not in this generality you are now using.
But you only talk about Lincoln. You only attack Lincoln. So again, why? And if you just want to attack Lincoln, why do it with something practically everyone at the time was guilty of? That is just dishonest.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:01 PM   #42
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
But you only talk about Lincoln. You only attack Lincoln.
So what if I do.

But your adding the word "only" is a lie. I talk about plenty of issues and other politicians. Lincoln just happens to come up and as a hero or great emancipator. That's just not the truth.

Quote:
So again, why? And if you just want to attack Lincoln, why do it with something practically everyone at the time was guilty of? That is just dishonest.
I don't have to explain that when this is a political forum where this is what goes on about politicians.

However, telling the truth about a president who is the most whitewashed is not an attack. It's an attack if it's not true. I like to know the truth. That is not dishonest. What is dishonest is the whitewashing of the so-called Honest Abe who was not honest but a politician with an agenda. And I have mainly covered how he dealt secession and his subsequent war—not who put him in power and what for. However, if you want to know, I don't think he was all bad either. For he was going to grant the South mercy after the war; even forgive them their war debts for which he was assassinated. The Radical Republicans were a pretty nasty bunch. Because Johnson was going to carry out his same plan of mercy for which he was impeached. There are plenty of other unsavory characters at the time...as there usually are in politics—a very dirty business.

As for "practically everyone at the time as guilty of" are not my words. They're yours.This is what you do.
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“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 05-06-2013 at 09:10 PM..
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:54 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Full compensation. Slavers born before a certain date (usually in the future) will remain slaves. Colonization (the south didn't want free african americans). Gradual freedom over many decades. (sometimes up into the 1900's) Numerous other things.
I guess those make sense. Did they get any traction?
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:35 PM   #44
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana
...Colonization (the south didn't want free african americans).
Neither did Lincoln. And let's be honest here, there were free black men, even in the south that also owned slaves.
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“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:36 PM   #45
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Now let's move on to WEEKS 2, 3 and 4 shall we:
WEEK 2: WHY LINCOLN WAS ELECTED: THE FOUNDING FATHER OF CRONY CAPITALISM

WEEK 3: WAGING WAR ON THE CONSTITUTION: THE LINCOLN DICTATORSHIP

WEEK 4: FOUNDING FATHER OF THE AMERICAN WARFARE STATE

WEEK 5: THE LINCOLN CURSE: DICTATORSHIP, MILITARISM, AND ECONOMIC FASCISM
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“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
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