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Old 05-06-2013, 08:21 AM  
ChiefsandO'sfan ChiefsandO'sfan is offline
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If the Chiefs go 8-8 or better 49ers get a 2nd round pick.

A third- or second-rounder from Kansas City, the remnant of the Alex Smith deal. Now it can be told: The second draft choice San Francisco will receive from the Smith deal will be K.C.'s second-rounder in 2014 if the Chiefs go 8-8 or better this season. It will be a third-rounder in 2014 if Kansas City is under .500 this season.

So: San Francisco will probably have first-, second- and four third-rounders next year. But if the Chiefs surprise, it'll more likely be a one, two twos and three threes. As we've seen, GM Trent Baalke is dangerous with extra picks in his hands. If Colin Kaepernick is very good, the Niners should be annual contenders for years with the picks laid out that way.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2SWCd8Gea
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:04 PM   #256
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The argument just went from "Alex Smith is a winning QB! Look at his last two years and how he led the 49ers to the playoffs"

to

"8-8 is a HUGE improvement! We only won 2 games last year! We should be happy with 8-8"
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:04 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You can try to dismiss that important factor, but I'm sure you remember those days when most of us here at CP thought that all we needed was a Branden Albert quality defense (arguably top ten, but no worse than above average) and we'd have ourselves a legitimate Super Bowl contender.
No doubt about it, and I can't argue with that. I wasn't pissed off by the 30 year pattern then, because it was only a 20 year pattern.

But they didn't have that defense, they threw a first at Trent Green and signed a bunch of veterans. I loved DV at the time, but he didn't like rookies or kickers.

Heck, they didn't even take a first or second round pick that one year, maybe two, but Junior Siavii was a feel good story.

I hated Herm Edwards, but his picks are the reason this team is as good as it is right now.

What was DV's/Carl's first move? Trading a first for a recycled QB.
*****/Haley? Trading a high second (34) for a recycled QB.
Reid/Dorsey? Trading a high second (34+?) for a recycled QB.

I don't even want to rehash the Bono, Grbac etc. moves.

Oh yeah, they are going to do it next year for sure!
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:13 PM   #258
mnchiefsguy mnchiefsguy is offline
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Are you saying that a 2nd + 3rd was fine, but a 2nd + 2nd was getting fleeced?
Either way, San Fran got the much better end of the deal. 2nd + 3rd is too much, but occasionally you have to overpay to get what you want. Two second rounders is significantly overpaying...so to make that trade a success, the Chiefs need to make the playoffs and win a game this year. Not sure I see that happening.

So in short....a 2 + 3rd was not quite "fine", but was not awful. Two seconds makes the trade awful, barring a Super Bowl appearance.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:19 PM   #259
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how is Alex Smith a shitty QB?

he is what he is

but people are grossly overreacting about how "bad" he is

some of you people are just miserable human beings
Alex is a known commodity, so it is fair to judge him. He has had 6 years of bad and two years of decent.

I think even his defenders admit he is not a franchise QB. Shaub is a franchise QB. Two second rounders for a franchise QB is okay. What you are hearing is a preference to take a chance with an unknown that COULD be a star versus taking a known mediocre placeholder that will prevent us from looking hard for his replacement.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:23 PM   #260
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and more to that point

had we gotten the 6 over the Steelers there wasn't a team in the AFC that would have wanted to face us in the playoffs

our run game with LJ that year was literally unstoppable...had he played the entire year over Priest he would have simply shattered the single season rushing record and it wouldn't have been close
Ifs and Butts, nobody has a longer list of those than us Chiefs fans.

If only Tony hadn't been called for Offensive Pass interference! If only the Broncos hadn't cheated. If only DV had gotten Ty Law and Hugh Douglas!

I want a QB that hasn't already reached his ceiling in the NFL prior to wearing the Red and Gold. Is that too much to ask? It appears so.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:24 PM   #261
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Even if he was good it's still risky to trade those picks for him. The guy can't stay on the field. Tony Moeaki has been in the league 5 less years than him and has the same number of complete seasons played. And we call him injury prone. Smart money says Alex Smith doesn't play all 16 games this season.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:25 PM   #262
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:25 PM   #263
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Just so that there's no misunderstanding, I agree that the Chiefs paid too much for Alex Smith. Two second round draft picks just sounds like way too much.

The difference is that I'm not ready to lynch Reid and Dorsey for doing it. I hope Alex Smith outperforms his expectations. If he doesn't, then I'll wait and see how everything else goes for the next couple of years before passing judgment one way or the other.

It's entirely possible that in the long run the Alex Smith trade will turn out to be a failure but the vast majority of the other moves Reid and Dorsey make will turn out to be successes. No GM hits on every decision, and it's too early to condemn Reid and Dorsey. Like I've said many times, their teams haven't played a game yet.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:25 PM   #264
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Either way, San Fran got the much better end of the deal. 2nd + 3rd is too much, but occasionally you have to overpay to get what you want. Two second rounders is significantly overpaying...so to make that trade a success, the Chiefs need to make the playoffs and win a game this year. Not sure I see that happening.

So in short....a 2 + 3rd was not quite "fine", but was not awful. Two seconds makes the trade awful, barring a Super Bowl appearance.
OK. It's cheaper than what the Chiefs paid for Trent Green, fwiw. I think it will be well worth it if the Chiefs offense performs as well under Alex Smith as it did under Trent Green.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:28 PM   #265
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Look, I don't like giving up two second round picks, but Geno Smith was never going to be QBing this team in 2013. So would you rather have Matt Flynn?

I'm interested to see how this team looks on the field. Shit, every move they have made looks like they are in a "win it now" mode, so I don't know why you are all so shocked.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:28 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Just so that there's no misunderstanding, I agree that the Chiefs paid too much for Alex Smith. Two second round draft picks just sounds like way too much.

The difference is that I'm not ready to lynch Reid and Dorsey for doing it. I hope Alex Smith outperforms his expectations. If he doesn't, then I'll wait and see how everything else goes for the next couple of years before passing judgment one way or the other.

It's entirely possible that in the long run the Alex Smith trade will turn out to be a failure but the vast majority of the other moves Reid and Dorsey make will turn out to be successes. No GM hits on every decision, and it's too early to condemn Reid and Dorsey. Like I've said many times, their teams haven't played a game yet.
I actually still like Reid. I think him alone gives us a 3-4 win improvement. But I'm souring on Dorsey. It seems like evertime he tries to make a deal with another team, they get the better end of the deal.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:30 PM   #267
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Alex is a known commodity, so it is fair to judge him. He has had 6 years of bad and two years of decent.

I think even his defenders admit he is not a franchise QB. Shaub is a franchise QB. Two second rounders for a franchise QB is okay. What you are hearing is a preference to take a chance with an unknown that COULD be a star versus taking a known mediocre placeholder that will prevent us from looking hard for his replacement.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:30 PM   #268
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I actually still like Reid. I think him alone gives us a 3-4 win improvement. But I'm souring on Dorsey. It seems like evertime he tries to make a deal with another team, they get the better end of the deal.
I'd say the sample size on that is pretty small.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:30 PM   #269
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OK. It's cheaper than what the Chiefs paid for Trent Green, fwiw. I think it will be well worth it if the Chiefs offense performs as well under Alex Smith as it did under Trent Green.
I think Trent Green was a better quarterback. If Alex Smith raises his play to Trent's level, then that is a discussion that can take place.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:31 PM   #270
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I'd say the sample size on that is pretty small.
It is, but it's the truth so far.
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