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Old 05-05-2013, 10:43 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Founding Father of the American Leviathan State

Abraham Lincoln

Time for school.

For all those who love liberty and limited government....as well as those who need to be schooled about gargantuan government...here is a course that lays it all out.


The course consists of five lectures of 45-60 minutes, followed by 30-45 minutes of Q&A. Everything is online of course, and the lectures and discussions are archived, so that you don't have to be physically there from 5:30 to 7:00 for the next five Thursdays. Here are the nightly topics:

WEEK 1: THE TRUTH ABOUT LINCOLN, RACE, AND SLAVERY

WEEK 2: WHY LINCOLN WAS ELECTED: THE FOUNDING FATHER OF CRONY CAPITALISM

WEEK 3: WAGING WAR ON THE CONSTITUTION: THE LINCOLN DICTATORSHIP

WEEK 4: FOUNDING FATHER OF THE AMERICAN WARFARE STATE

WEEK 5: THE LINCOLN CURSE: DICTATORSHIP, MILITARISM, AND ECONOMIC FASCISM

http://academy.mises.org/courses/lincoln/
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:49 AM   #2
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The violence of the criticism aimed at Lincoln by the great men of his time on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line is startling. The breadth and depth of the spectacular prejudice against him is often shocking for its cruelty, intensity, and unrelenting vigor. The plain truth is that Mr. Lincoln was deeply reviled by many who knew him personally, and by hundreds of thousands who only knew of him.~ Larry Tagg, The Unpopular Mr. Lincoln: The Story of America's Most Reviled President
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The Unpopular Mr. Lincoln, which utilizes thousands of primary sources to make the case that no American president was more reviled by his contemporaries — at home and abroad — during his own lifetime than Abraham Lincoln was. Tagg is no Southern apologist: He is a native of Lincoln, Illinois, and profusely thanks Harold Holzer, one of the high priests of the Lincoln cult, in his acknowledgements. This book establishes Mr. Tagg as a card-carrying member of the cult.

How the Lincoln Myth was Hatched
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:50 AM   #3
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:52 AM   #4
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"Mainstream" Lincoln scholar David Donald remarked in Lincoln Reconsidered that Lincoln was wildly unpopular in his own time.

Edgar Lee Masters wrote of the near universal hatred of Lincoln by his contemporaries in Lincoln the Man.

Historian Frank L. Klement, author of Lincoln's Critics: The Copperheads of the North, spent a career researching and writing about Lincoln's Northern critics.

Freedom Under Lincoln by Dean Sprague and Constitutional Problems Under Lincoln by James Randall also discuss the critics of Lincoln's tyrannical and dictatorial behavior, although these authors do their best to whitewash it all.

from same link above
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:55 AM   #5
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Election of 1864 election Lincoln won with 55% of the vote—with the South OUT of the Union.
Plus federal troops were used to rig the elections by intimidating Democratic voters at the polling places.

The Civil War was immensely unpopular in the North.
Lincoln had to imprison so many dissenters and shut down most of the opposition press. He had to resort to the slavery of military conscription resulting in draft riots.

In the July, 1863 New York City draft riots Lincoln sent 15,000 troops who fired into the crowds, killing hundreds in the streets. Entire regiments of Union Army soldiers deserted on the eve of battle again and again, and tens of thousands — probably more — deserted.

The Daily Bell interview with Thomas DiLorenzo.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:03 PM   #6
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It would've been interesting to see what would've happened to the South had they been allowed to leave freewill. Slavery wouldn't have lasted very long and certainly not in the face of massive technological advancements that made manpower farming irrelevant. Then what? What would they do? Ask back in?
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
It would've been interesting to see what would've happened to the South had they been allowed to leave freewill. Slavery wouldn't have lasted very long and certainly not in the face of massive technological advancements that made manpower farming irrelevant. Then what? What would they do? Ask back in?
This is BS. So what you are saying is that in the 1900s (or even today) there was no need for manual labor.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
It would've been interesting to see what would've happened to the South had they been allowed to leave freewill.
As I said before, they'd likely have returned because it was in their best interests.
The thing is, seceding is a last check and balance on the federal govt. Can you imagine how much freer this country would have been if Lincoln didn't handled it his way. It sends a message.

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Slavery wouldn't have lasted very long and certainly not in the face of massive technological advancements that made manpower farming irrelevant. Then what? What would they do? Ask back in?
That's the main point, made by those who say slaughtering 620,000 our our fellow country men t end slavery wasn't necessary. Please, go back and read earlier debates we've had here before on how slavery in that era was ended by the stroke of a pen in other countries. Dozens of countries. We're one of the few that slaughtered over it. One method was compensated emancipation. Although, if you read British Progs, they didn't even like that idea. They just prefer the force and violence of govt instead.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:26 PM   #9
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Greatest Emancipations: How the West Ended Slavery by Jim Powell

British, Spanish, French and our own Northern states where slavery existed for over 200 years, ended slavery peacefully.

Slavery was also ended in Cuba, Brazil, and the Congo.

Page 241:
"[S]lavery was being eroded throughout the West by political trends and relentless agitation. The process would have continued and perhaps accelerated without the Civil War."

Powell argues that peaceful secession would have neutered the federal Fugitive Slave Act (which Lincoln strongly supported), creating a flood of runaway slaves that could not have been stopped and would have broken the back of the slave system. Echoing Spooner's arguments, he also says that the Confederacy would have been politically isolated by the rest of the world so that "there would have come a time, much sooner than most people might expect, when the combined effects of multiple antislavery strategies would have brought about the fairly peaceful collapse of Confederate slavery. If this seems doubtful, just recall how a combination of pressures led the mighty Soviet Union to collapse and vanish from the map — without a (nuclear) war."

Powell concludes that blacks in America would have achieved freedom and justice much sooner had emancipation been peaceful, as it had been in most of the rest of the world in the nineteenth century.

How the West (Except for the U.S.) Ended Slavery
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:27 PM   #10
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:29 PM   #11
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BEP, could you explain something...

Is there a substantial amount of hyperbole with your statements such as (paraphrasing), "We live in a totalitarian state!"?
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:13 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
This is BS. So what you are saying is that in the 1900s (or even today) there was no need for manual labor.
Ever heard of the Industrial Revolution?
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:44 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
As I said before, they'd likely have returned because it was in their best interests.
The thing is, seceding is a last check and balance on the federal govt. Can you imagine how much freer this country would have been if Lincoln didn't handled it his way. It sends a message.



That's the main point, made by those who say slaughtering 620,000 our our fellow country men t end slavery wasn't necessary. Please, go back and read earlier debates we've had here before on how slavery in that era was ended by the stroke of a pen in other countries. Dozens of countries. We're one of the few that slaughtered over it. One method was compensated emancipation. Although, if you read British Progs, they didn't even like that idea. They just prefer the force and violence of govt instead.
Lincoln’s efforts to secure the peaceful abolition of slavery through a gradual, compensated emancipation with the option for freed blacks to relocate outside the United States were rebuffed by Confederates and most southern white unionists. Thus, the offer was made, and it was rejected. If Lincoln was the tyrant you makes him out to be, why did not the sixteenth president simply impose his solution on the nation?

If one is to ask whether it was necessary for so many Americans to have died to end slavery, one might with at least equal justice ask a similar question of Confederate leadership, who contributed to that death toll in order to preserve the enslavement of fellow human beings. Moreover, to attribute the costs of a war that no one could have foreseen in 1861 to the actions of a single individual while ignoring the presence of other actors seems to me to be problematic. One could with more than equal justice claim that Jefferson Davis was willing to sacrifice hundred of thousands of lives to preserve slavery. Nor do you appear to care about the continued suffering of slaves or their prolonged enslavement had the Confederacy survived.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Ever heard of the Industrial Revolution?
Yes I have. Have you ever heard that manual labor was still necessary throughout the Industrial Revolution, up to and including the present day?
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:36 PM   #15
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Yes I have. Have you ever heard that manual labor was still necessary throughout the Industrial Revolution, up to and including the present day?
Paid or slave?
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