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Old 05-08-2013, 09:35 AM  
Mr. Flopnuts Mr. Flopnuts is offline
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Social Security is an entitlement?

Came across this on Facebook. Don't know who wrote it, but it's exactly how I feel about the whole thing. Just thought I'd share it, and watch the cat fight that ensues from afar. Good day.

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THIS IS SURE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!!!! THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THE GOVERNMENT'S CALCULATION OF AVAILABLE SOCIAL SECURITY IS THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY EVER COLLECTED A SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK!!! WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?

Remember, not only did you and I contribute to Social Security, but your employer did, too. It totals 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that's close to $220,500. Read that again!

Did you see where the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money you and your employer put in a Government bank to insure you and I that we would have a retirement check from the money we put in, not the Government. Now they are calling the money we put in an ENTITLEMENT when we reach the age to take it back.

If you calculate the future invested value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (less than what the Government pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working you'd have $892,919.98. If you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you're 95 if you retire at age 65) and that's with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you'd have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month. If you have a deceased spouses who died in their 50's -- their S.S. money will never have one cent drawn from what they paid into S.S. all their lives over the past 30 years!

THE FOLKS IN WASHINGTON HAVE PULLED OFF A BIGGER PONZI SCHEME THAN BERNIE MADOFF EVER DID.

Entitlement my foot, I paid cash for my social security insurance! Just because they borrowed the money for other government spending, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!

Remember Congressional benefits? --- free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days.
Now that's welfare!!! And they have the nerve to call my social security retirement payments entitlements?!?

We're "broke" and we can't help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, or Homeless.
Yet in the last few months we have provided aid to Haiti, Chile and Turkey. And now Pakistan......home of bin Laden. Literally, BILLIONS... if not TRILLIONS of DOLLARS are unaccounted for!!!

They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now, when it's time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place? It was supposed to be in a locked box, not part of the general fund.
Sad isn't it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:05 PM   #16
2bikemike 2bikemike is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Well, we've got multiple errors in this. Let's deconstruct:

No it wasn't supposed to be in a locked box. It was NEVER in a locked box. It was never designed to be in a locked box. If it was a locked box, then everyone who lived too long (the majority of SS recipients) would have had their money simply run out at some point in time. Can't imagine how popular that would be.

But bottom line that was never how the system was designed.

The author is an ignorant, pandering, demogoguing fool.
While the author was wrong on several counts. I will say that I would much rather of had the money (mine and my employers contribution) in my own account under the so called lock box. I would rather take my chances on life expectancy than what the Govt is going to do to the program.

What the Govt did with social security is no different than a pyramid scheme. Takes new investors to push the old ones out. As long as you have plenty of new investors the program runs fine. Which is why IMHO there is the big push to legalize all the illegals, get some new investors. Problem is sooner or later we will be back in the same situation.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:19 PM   #17
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
So.........if you pass the drivers test and receive a licsense, thats an entitlement, if you meet the qualifications for a mortgage, thats an entitlement............. should I go on..........

And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch. SS is definitely an entitlement.
No, that wouldn't be an entitlement. Here's a definition:

Quote:
The kind of government program that provides individuals with personal financial benefits (or sometimes special government-provided goods or services) to which an indefinite (but usually rather large) number of potential beneficiaries have a legal right (enforceable in court, if necessary) whenever they meet eligibility conditions that are specified by the standing law that authorizes the program. The beneficiaries of entitlement programs are normally individual citizens or residents, but sometimes organizations such as business corporations, local governments, or even political parties may have similar special "entitlements" under certain programs. The most important examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the United States would include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, most Veterans' Administration programs, federal employee and military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, food stamps, and agricultural price support programs.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:39 AM   #18
King_Chief_Fan King_Chief_Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You should. One reason it's an entitlement, to me, is because many get more out of it than they put into it. The Greatest Generation benifitted the most from the program. Afterall, they produced the baby boom generation.
I don't want more, but I will take my employers contribution and mine in a lump sum when I retire.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:19 AM   #19
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
While the author was wrong on several counts. I will say that I would much rather of had the money (mine and my employers contribution) in my own account under the so called lock box. I would rather take my chances on life expectancy than what the Govt is going to do to the program.
Yeah, but that's because you're intelligent and no doubt willing and able to save for retirement, etc.

SS has been a great program for alot of years, but changing demographics means its viability is seriously threatened. When it was instituted there was soemthing like 9 working adults for every 1 retiree. Now it's like 3:1, and will soon be 2:1. That makes the program as currently constructed non-viable.

Quote:
What the Govt did with social security is no different than a pyramid scheme. Takes new investors to push the old ones out. As long as you have plenty of new investors the program runs fine. Which is why IMHO there is the big push to legalize all the illegals, get some new investors. Problem is sooner or later we will be back in the same situation.
Right, I mentioned that some consider the program a ponzi scheme. I really dont' think SS is one of the main reasons behind SS reform. Don't think it would help that much to be honest, but yes to the extent it would help, it just kicks the ball down the road a bit.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:20 AM   #20
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
I don't want more, but I will take my employers contribution and mine in a lump sum when I retire.
You get no quarrel from me.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Yeah, but that's because you're intelligent and no doubt willing and able to save for retirement, etc.

SS has been a great program for alot of years, but changing demographics means its viability is seriously threatened. When it was instituted there was soemthing like 9 working adults for every 1 retiree. Now it's like 3:1, and will soon be 2:1. That makes the program as currently constructed non-viable.

.

I probably didn't explain real well, I think the program should have been invested individually through the Govt program of collecting for that very reason. There are just too many who would not invest for their future. There are ways that the money could have been invested to ensure at least a 6% rate of return over the working life of a person. The problem I have not really figured is how do you protect the children and widows of those who paid in and died prematurely.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:49 AM   #22
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
I probably didn't explain real well, I think the program should have been invested individually through the Govt program of collecting for that very reason. There are just too many who would not invest for their future. There are ways that the money could have been invested to ensure at least a 6% rate of return over the working life of a person. The problem I have not really figured is how do you protect the children and widows of those who paid in and died prematurely.

The other issue, and it's a big one, is the massive distortion to the market that would be caused by that much money being funneled into whatever in the world you decided to invest it in.

And the fact that many would go nuts to learn that their "hard earned money" was being invested in something that could lose principle. That might render it politically DOA.

But it's the first point that concerns me more.
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Old 05-18-2013, 08:05 PM   #23
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