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Old 05-10-2013, 10:02 AM  
RaiderH8r RaiderH8r is offline
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IRS Admits it Targeted Conservative Groups

The complaints by conservatives that they were being singled out for scrutiny by the IRS turns out to be true.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...y.html?hpid=z1
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:21 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by GoChargers View Post
And it was just as wrong then as it is now. Let's not pretend that the government using the convoluted tax code against people they don't like is some new development.
We don't know it was just as wrong then as it is now. We don't know anything about the circumstances surrounding the audits in those examples. For all we know, they were perfectly legitimate. There's something different known about the process that's been taking place under the Obama IRS.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:34 AM   #302
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Oh, yeah? Well, ****ing Harry Truman once...
Actually, Truman did have a pretty serious IRS scandal in his day.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:15 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/polit...no-outrage-gop

IRS Audited Liberal Groups Under President Bush, No Outrage From GOP

By Michael Allen, Thu, May 16, 2013
While Republicans attack the Obama administration over some IRS agents auditing conservative groups with the words "Tea Party" and "patriot" in their names, they weren't particularly outraged when the IRS targeted liberal groups during President George W. Bush's presidency, noted Salon.com.

I wish there was more GOP interest when I raised the same issue during the Bush administration, where they audited a progressive church in my district in what look liked a very selective way, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) told MSNBC on Monday (video below).

One of the liberal groups targeted by the IRS under the Bush administration was All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, California, reported the Los Angeles Times.

The IRS actually threatened to revoke the church's tax-emption because Pastor George Regas said: Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine," on the Sunday before the 2004 election.

Ironically, conservative churches that actively campaigned for President Bush in 2004 were not audited by the IRS, reported the New York Times.

According to the Baltimore Sun, the IRS also went after the NAACP after they said Bush was the first president since Herbert Hoover not to address the organization.

In 2006, the IRS investigated the liberal environmental group Greenpeace after a conservative group called "Public Interest Watch," which had financial ties to Exxon, pushed for an investigation, reported Democracy Now.
And that was just as wrong then. Both of these parties are out of control~
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:33 AM   #304
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:48 AM   #305
The_Grand_Illusion The_Grand_Illusion is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
We don't know it was just as wrong then as it is now. We don't know anything about the circumstances surrounding the audits in those examples. For all we know, they were perfectly legitimate. There's something different known about the process that's been taking place under the Obama IRS.
For the first part, I agree, it is abuse of power whoever uses it, if that was the case.

For the bolded part, I wonder if that is what he meant when he said he was going to punish his enemies.

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Old 05-19-2013, 09:49 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
And that was just as wrong then. Both of these parties are out of control~
Clinton targeted people he didn't like too. This what happens when we have too much power, including an agency like the IRS.
Leaders then have access to the tools of the state, such as invasive agencies to target their political enemies.

Get rid of the IRS. Problem over. ( at least with one invasive agency.)
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:10 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
And that was just as wrong then. Both of these parties are out of control~
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Originally Posted by The_Grand_Illusion View Post
For the first part, I agree, it is abuse of power whoever uses it, if that was the case.

For the bolded part, I wonder if that is what he meant when he said he was going to punish his enemies.

No, you are both jumping to unwarranted conclusions on the first part. Unlike the current situation, there's no reason to believe that those are politically motivated audits. They may have been, and if so, they were wrong. But based on that article there's no reason to conclude that they were just as wrong then as they are now.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:14 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, you are both jumping to unwarranted conclusions on the first part. Unlike the current situation, there's no reason to believe that those are politically motivated audits. They may have been, and if so, they were wrong. But based on that article there's no reason to conclude that they were just as wrong then as they are now.
Fair enough however there is not a doubt in my mind the right is just as corrupt as the left~
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:21 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Fair enough however there is not a doubt in my mind the right is just as corrupt as the left~
There are corrupt people on both sides, I agree with that. There are two pretty important differences between the left and right in this regard though:

1. The left wants to expand the reach and power of government to interfere with our lives while the right wants to constrict it, generally speaking.

2. The federal government's bureaucracies are dominated by left sympathizers so it's a lot easier for leaders of the left to get away with things like this, or in some cases to just "set a tone" and benefit from unethical decisions made by subordinates.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:35 AM   #310
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Yeah, Reagan should have been impeached. I have no problem saying that at all. I have a feeling if we got to the truth of most politicians, we wouldn't let them walk our dogs, much less run the country. Which is why I am for smaller, local government.
Heretic!

You mean a system that gave Bob Dole a reasonable option to move to another location with a set of values and beliefs similar to his own? Where there was some Heterogeneity and not some sort of Tyranny of the Majority from an increasingly moronic populace deciding who should run a bloated central government? A government that has consistently shown that the phrase "live within your means" is not part of its vocabulary?

MADNESS!!

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Old 05-19-2013, 11:53 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
There are corrupt people on both sides, I agree with that. There are two pretty important differences between the left and right in this regard though:

1. The left wants to expand the reach and power of government to interfere with our lives while the right wants to constrict it, generally speaking.

2. The federal government's bureaucracies are dominated by left sympathizers so it's a lot easier for leaders of the left to get away with things like this, or in some cases to just "set a tone" and benefit from unethical decisions made by subordinates.
One could say that the right wants to expand the reach and power of industry to act as governance in more of our lives. The left wants to restrict that. (power vacuums are always filled?)

And could I get the poll on that second comment. Do you mean most are Democrats. Because if you have a Democrat President than he naturally chooses mainly fellow Democrats for positions. So show me this is true under a Republican Administration as well.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:07 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
One could say that the right wants to expand the reach and power of industry to act as governance in more of our lives. The left wants to restrict that. (power vacuums are always filled?)

And could I get the poll on that second comment. Do you mean most are Democrats. Because if you have a Democrat President than he naturally chooses mainly fellow Democrats for positions. So show me this is true under a Republican Administration as well.
This is true below the level of appointees so it's independent of which party occupies the white house.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:21 PM   #313
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The right gives lip service to the shrinking of the federal government. What they really want to do is redistribute the federal monies to their own per projects, not actually shrink the overall government. They believe in smaller government just like the Dems supposedly believe in helping the poor: the rhetoric resonates with their base.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #314
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The right gives lip service to the shrinking of the federal government. What they really want to do is redistribute the federal monies to their own per projects, not actually shrink the overall government. They believe in smaller government just like the Dems supposedly believe in helping the poor: the rhetoric resonates with their base.
If you mean "the right" as in the politicians, you are probably right. If you mean "the right" as the general population, you're probably off base.

Unfortunately, the libertarian position has not yet been able to gain any political traction. We really do need a third party, but nobody with the capital to fight the 2 machines will step up and commit to it.

Maybe Bob Dole should ask for a meeting with Ross P. the next time he is in town.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:43 PM   #315
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What they really want to do is redistribute the federal monies to their own per projects,
I hear that!!

/Pelosi

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