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Old 05-08-2013, 09:35 AM  
Mr. Flopnuts Mr. Flopnuts is offline
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Social Security is an entitlement?

Came across this on Facebook. Don't know who wrote it, but it's exactly how I feel about the whole thing. Just thought I'd share it, and watch the cat fight that ensues from afar. Good day.

Quote:
THIS IS SURE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!!!! THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THE GOVERNMENT'S CALCULATION OF AVAILABLE SOCIAL SECURITY IS THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY EVER COLLECTED A SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK!!! WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?

Remember, not only did you and I contribute to Social Security, but your employer did, too. It totals 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that's close to $220,500. Read that again!

Did you see where the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money you and your employer put in a Government bank to insure you and I that we would have a retirement check from the money we put in, not the Government. Now they are calling the money we put in an ENTITLEMENT when we reach the age to take it back.

If you calculate the future invested value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (less than what the Government pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working you'd have $892,919.98. If you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you're 95 if you retire at age 65) and that's with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you'd have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month. If you have a deceased spouses who died in their 50's -- their S.S. money will never have one cent drawn from what they paid into S.S. all their lives over the past 30 years!

THE FOLKS IN WASHINGTON HAVE PULLED OFF A BIGGER PONZI SCHEME THAN BERNIE MADOFF EVER DID.

Entitlement my foot, I paid cash for my social security insurance! Just because they borrowed the money for other government spending, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!

Remember Congressional benefits? --- free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days.
Now that's welfare!!! And they have the nerve to call my social security retirement payments entitlements?!?

We're "broke" and we can't help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, or Homeless.
Yet in the last few months we have provided aid to Haiti, Chile and Turkey. And now Pakistan......home of bin Laden. Literally, BILLIONS... if not TRILLIONS of DOLLARS are unaccounted for!!!

They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now, when it's time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place? It was supposed to be in a locked box, not part of the general fund.
Sad isn't it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:39 AM   #2
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I think the definition of entitlements has become distorted over the years. There's a rather large difference between SS and Medicare versus food stamps.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:53 AM   #3
blaise blaise is offline
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought when you died your kids or spouse get some sort of SS payments.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:03 AM   #4
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought when you died your kids or spouse get some sort of SS payments.
Spouse yes, kids no.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:08 AM   #5
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Spouse yes, kids no.
Minor kids, yes.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:09 AM   #6
alnorth alnorth is offline
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Few things:

Regarding "keeping the money when you died" Social Security also includes a survivor's benefit program, and other little-known programs. Also, people are living plenty long enough to collect, far longer than the program was based on. The people who don't collect are a pittance in comparison.

Right when the author started talking about 5% return, he committed a key, fundamental flaw. You aren't earning 5%, nor should you expect to since the trust fund is basically invested in government bonds that yield next to nothing.

Social Security is not an investment. I repeat: social security is not, and never was intended to be, an investment. People need to get that idea out of their heads. Whether the program is good, bad, or indifferent, you simply can not compare it to an investment or a retirement account.

It even has the word "social" in it, social security is a government social program intended to keep everyone at some minimal standard of living, at the expense of those who are middle class or higher. They kick a few bucks to everyone to keep those who would otherwise vote against it, from complaining too loudly.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:32 AM   #7
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Yes, it's an entitlement. If you meet the qualifications for payment, you're entitled to that payment. If you're dead or if you haven't reached the right age yet or if you never worked a job during your life, you generally don't meet the requirements so you don't get paid. Exceptions include the disabled and spouses of those who earned a benefit.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:32 PM   #8
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What? Social Security is the very definition of an entitlement program.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:38 PM   #9
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Well, we've got multiple errors in this. Let's deconstruct:


Quote:
THIS IS SURE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!!!! THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THE GOVERNMENT'S CALCULATION OF AVAILABLE SOCIAL SECURITY IS THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY EVER COLLECTED A SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK!!! WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?

Social Security does NOT, and NEVER has, had any kind of separate accounts for separate individuals. Amounts are paid in as SS taxes, and amounts are paid out as SS benefits, but nobody has any kind of "lockbox" account, or specifically set-aside money to which they are entitled. SS doesn't work that way. Never has.

Instead, you pay in while you work. If/when you are entitled to collect and make the election to do so, you collect.

People who die -- they don't get paid (unless there is a spousal benefit, minor child or other person that is entitled to that money). On the flip side of the ledger, however, are people who far outlive expectations and, as a result, get paid out WAY more than they ever put in, even including any kind of reasonable interest rate. In theory, over the entire demographics, this stuff should sort of balance out, to the benefit of those who live longer and detriment of those who die young.


Quote:
Remember, not only did you and I contribute to Social Security, but your employer did, too. It totals 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that's close to $220,500. Read that again!

A basic fact that is wildly wrong. The SS tax, including both employee and employer portions, has never been 15%. Since the late 1980s, except for the last couple years when a recession-prompted reduction went into effect (increasing the deficit by the way), the combined rate has been 12.4%.

Oh, and I don't know how the hell this guy is figuring $220,500. That assumes that the individual made $30,000 each year from age 18 to age 67. Of course, the issue there is that if you go back BEFORE 1988, the rate was not even 12.4%, much less 15%. If you go back the 49 working years this guy assumes, you're back to 1964, when the combined rate was only 7.25%.

But why let facts get in the way of a good story.

Quote:
Did you see where the Government paid in one single penny?
Well, in actuality, any payments above the amounts paid in by the worker during their working lifetime (due to living "too long") would be funded by the government.

Of course, all government funds are essentially from taxpayers, so it's not like they have a separate place to get money. But over the last few years, SS receipts have fallen short of outlays, which means that SS is getting the money from general revenues. Of course, what is happening in accounting terms is the general government is repaying loans previously extended to it by SS, but I digress.

Anyway, this is basically wrong, again, and will be even more wrong if we don't change anything and, a few decades from now, SS outlays have outstripped SS reciepts and all loans by SS have been repaid in full.

Quote:
We are talking about the money you and your employer put in a Government bank
Nope. Wrong. Money was never put in any "government bank".

Quote:
to insure you and I that we would have a retirement check from the money we put in, not the Government. Now they are calling the money we put in an ENTITLEMENT when we reach the age to take it back.
SS is an entitlement program. If you qualify for the money, you are ENTITLED to get it. Hence entitlement program. See how easy that was?


Quote:
If you calculate the future invested value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (less than what the Government pays on the money that it borrows),
When the hell was this article written, 2004? 5% is way more than the government has paid on the money that it borrows for years now.


Quote:
THE FOLKS IN WASHINGTON HAVE PULLED OFF A BIGGER PONZI SCHEME THAN BERNIE MADOFF EVER DID.
There is an argument that SS is a ponzi scheme. In many respects it is.

Quote:
Entitlement my foot, I paid cash for my social security insurance! Just because they borrowed the money for other government spending, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!
It is neither a charity nor a handout. But it is heading towards insolvency. That's the only thing that truly matters. Keep the system as it stands, and it will be completely broken before today's college graduates retire.

Quote:
Remember Congressional benefits? --- free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days.
Now that's welfare!!! And they have the nerve to call my social security retirement payments entitlements?!?

Interesting, but totally irrelevant.

Quote:
They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now, when it's time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place? It was supposed to be in a locked box, not part of the general fund.

No it wasn't supposed to be in a locked box. It was NEVER in a locked box. It was never designed to be in a locked box. If it was a locked box, then everyone who lived too long (the majority of SS recipients) would have had their money simply run out at some point in time. Can't imagine how popular that would be.

But bottom line that was never how the system was designed.

The author is an ignorant, pandering, demogoguing fool.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:20 PM   #10
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Paid my whole life never asked for a dime from my government. I would hope I am entitled to at least get the money back that I have paid to the pricks~
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:39 PM   #11
Garcia Bronco Garcia Bronco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought when you died your kids or spouse get some sort of SS payments.
Kids get 250.00 dollars burial money. Not per child. Might be 200.00. see brochure for details.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:20 PM   #12
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I think it comes from the fact that the right lumps retired Americans into their stats of "takers". It was done CONSTANTLY by Romney and the GOP after his dinner party gaff.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yes, it's an entitlement. If you meet the qualifications for payment, you're entitled to that payment.
So.........if you pass the drivers test and receive a licsense, thats an entitlement, if you meet the qualifications for a mortgage, thats an entitlement............. should I go on..........

And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch. SS is definitely an entitlement.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:35 PM   #14
cdcox cdcox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
Kids get 250.00 dollars burial money. Not per child. Might be 200.00. see brochure for details.
False. Minor children receive a benefit of 75% of the deceased workers benefit. My cousin received a substantial check (several hundred dollars) every month after her father passed away.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/survivorplan/ifyou5.htm
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:52 PM   #15
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Paid my whole life never asked for a dime from my government. I would hope I am entitled to at least get the money back that I have paid to the pricks~
You should. One reason it's an entitlement, to me, is because many get more out of it than they put into it. The Greatest Generation benifitted the most from the program. Afterall, they produced the baby boom generation.
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