Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-04-2013, 11:16 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $5867
Which do Republicans hate more: immigration reform, or Obama.

If Rubio's rhetoric is any indication, it's definitely Obama.

Selling immigration reform as worthwhile simply does not appeal to the Republican party. They still believe the border isn't being protected (despite increased deportation numbers), and they still believe illegal immigrants should not have a path to citizenship.

The GOP establishment, desperately trying to keep themselves relevant demographically for the future, cannot seem to drive the party to believe in the wisdom of immigration reform, either intellectually as policy, or demographically as politics.

The main resistance, as has been covered here before:

Quote:
If President Obama wants immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship for undocumented workers, he may not want to mention it at all in tonight’s State of the Union speech, a new Washington Post poll suggests.

Seven in 10 people in the survey said they would support a path to citizenship, including 60 percent of Republicans. But when the same question was asked of a separate sample of respondents, this time with Obama’s name attached to it, support dropped to 59 percent overall and just 39 percent among Republicans.
So Rubio and the GOP have attempted selling immigration reform in classic white-is-black fashion to the base: if we don't get reform passed, Obama wins!

I don't see how this works with the House GOP, unless Boehner continues creating a majority by lumping in moderate Repulicans with Democrats. But even then, I think you need like 50 Republicans, and I don't see that happening.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ration-reform/

How Marco Rubio is enticing conservatives on immigration reform
Posted by Greg Sargent
on May 3, 2013 at 1:41 pm

So how can Republicans who want immigration reform get conservatives to accept it, given that Obama also wants it?

Republicans pushing for reform have come up with a strategic answer to that question, one that isn’t really acknowledged openly. They are subtly making the case to their base that a defeat for immigration reform is actually a hidden victory for Obama, and that passing the Senate compromise is actually worse for the President than the alternative, i.e. doing nothing.

In this sense, the immigration reform debate is perhaps the ultimate test of what Obama referred to as the need to create a “permission structure” — that is, a way for conservatives to accept something Obama wants, too. The message — which is carefully couched – is that, yes, Obama wants immigration reform, but conservatives should accept the Gang of Eight compromise because the alternative is actually better for the President.

You can see this strategy on display in Marco Rubio’s big Op ed piece in the Wall Street Journal today calling on Republicans to embrace the Gang of Eight compromise. Note this formulation in particular:

Quote:
The immigration-reform bill in the Senate is a solid starting point for solving this problem, and I believe it can be made even better as Congress begins to actively work on it in committee next week. But defeating it without offering an alternative cannot be the conservative position on immigration reform. That would leave the issue entirely in the hands of President Obama and leave in place the disastrous status quo.
The wording in the last sentence is very carefully chosen. The idea is that if we don’t pass the Gang of Eight plan, Obama wins. This case is being made on several levels. On the one hand, this notion of leaving the issue “entirely in the hands of Obama” is a partly a suggestion that the President just may use his executive powers to solve the undocumented immigrant problem himself if we don’t pass the Senate plan — just as he did with the DREAMers — even as conservatives get nothing of what they want: No increased enforcement, no E-Verify, nothing. At times, when speaking directly to conservative audiences, Rubio has made this case explicitly, as he did in this radio interview with Mark Levin:

Quote:
“If we don’t do anything, then the status quo remains, which is they won’t do anything. You won’t have E-Verify, you won’t have…. In fact, I think it’s possible that they could give legal status like they did to the DREAM Act qualificators, I mean people who qualified under the DREAM Act — they could do the same thing to millions of people more. What would stop them from doing that?”
This idea of the dangers of leaving in place “the disastrous status quo” is also an effort to make the case that failing to act now carries hidden benefits for Obama. The argument Rubio is making is a play on the notion that many conservatives simply don’t believe Obama is securing the border, despite record numbers of deportations and billions spent on border security. The Senate compromise would include massive new resources for border security; Rubio’s suggestion here is that failure to embrace it will allow Obama to continue failing to protect the border. Obama wins again!

There’s a key nuance here. As I understand the thinking, GOP base voters are turned off by the political argument that we must reform immigration because if we don’t, Obama will be able to screw Republicans over politically with Latinos. The reason the political argument doesn’t work is partly because many GOP base voters are persuaded that immigration reform will create a whole lot of Democratic voters — in purely political terms, rank-and-file members of the GOP base believe immigration reform is a net win for Democrats no matter how you slice it.

That’s why the argument can’t be openly stated as: If we embrace reform, Obama loses. It has to be carefully calibrated in the manner Rubio has adopted: Not doing anything opens the door for a far greater victory for Obama later. He will be able to do for the undocumented what he did for the DREAMers — while not securing the border — a twofer for Obama.

Obama is playing his part in this dance, too. He and the White House frequently take care to say — not in these exact words, but this is the message – that while he supports the Senate compromise, it’s far from the liberal dream legislation he’d like. And this isn’t just rhetorical: Obama really did remove himself from the process and allow bipartisan Senators, with heavy involvement from Republicans like Rubio and Lindsey Graham, create their compromise.

It’s been widely observed that we’re stalemated in Washington because GOP base voters can’t accept the idea of their representatives compromising with Obama. The President has hatched the idea of a “permission structure” to get around this problem. The immigration debate is looming as the number one test of this strategy. The rub is that Republicans, quietly, are also in on it.
Posts: 44,043
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 11:20 AM   #2
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
All aboard the crazy train
 
LiveSteam's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: homeof43conferencetitles
Casino cash: $5585
Game is going into Overtime
Posts: 16,820
LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 11:26 AM   #3
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
The Bitch is back
 
Prison Bitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lees summit
Casino cash: $6445
What do you mean, "reform"? I don't understand that word. What is being reformed? Are you referring to the latest iteration of amnesty? I believe that is what you are discussing.


And if that's the case, then obviously it is 10x worse than anything Obama could ever do as President outside of unleashing a nuke on some nation. So yeah: amnesty is horrible for the nation. Obama's more like a boil on its butt.
Posts: 13,290
Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 11:30 AM   #4
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
MVP
 
mikey23545's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $5412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
What do you mean, "reform"? I don't understand that word. What is being reformed? Are you referring to the latest iteration of amnesty? I believe that is what you are discussing.


And if that's the case, then obviously it is 10x worse than anything Obama could ever do as President outside of unleashing a nuke on some nation. So yeah: amnesty is horrible for the nation. Obama's more like a boil on its butt.
Yep.

It is an attempt to change the electoral dynamic for the next generation or two...
Posts: 11,960
mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 12:03 PM   #5
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
The Bitch is back
 
Prison Bitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lees summit
Casino cash: $6445
So why is Juan McCain out there on Fox News every night begging to get this passed? It's truly amazing. Had the 1965 disaster never been passed we'd not have Obama as President today.
Posts: 13,290
Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 11:20 AM   #6
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $5867
If DeMint is weighing in against immigration reform, then I don't see how this can get done.

DeMint is a barometer of the GOP base. If the GOP base can't get behind this, then the House can't pass shit. And immigration reform could be dead.

A short-term political victory for the GOP, maybe, since it robs Obama of an accomplishment he can brag about. But it is a destructive lack of policymaking, and we could continue to see 70/30 Hispanic turnout in favor of Democrats, turning states like Texas purple sooner rather than later, and giving the GOP a torturous longterm uphill climb in future Presidential races.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...u-s-trillions/

Jim DeMint: Immigration Reform Will Cost U.S. Trillions
By Benjamin Bell
May 5, 2013 10:52am

Former South Carolina Republican senator and current Heritage Foundation president Jim DeMint argued that implementing immigration reform as proposed by the so-called “Gang of Eight” would “cost Americans trillions of dollars,” citing a soon-to-be released update to the conservative group’s 2007 study on the impact of immigration reform.

“The study you’ll see from Heritage this week presents a staggering cost of another amnesty in our country,” DeMint said this morning on “This Week,” based on the “detrimental effects long-term” of government benefits that would eventually go to the millions offered a path to citizenship under the reform legislation currently being considered. “There’s no reason we can’t begin to fix our immigration system so that we won’t make this problem worse. But the bill that’s being presented is unfair to those who came here legally. It will cost Americans trillions of dollars. It’ll make our unlawful immigration system worse.”

A 2007 study by Robert Rector, assuming all undocumented immigrants were granted “amnesty,” said the cost to the United States of immigration reform would be at least $2.6 trillion. When asked if the new Heritage estimate would be more than $2.5 trillion, DeMint responded “much more than that.”

The 2007 study is not without its critics, such as Alex Nowrasteh of the Cato Institute, who wrote in April that the study’s “flawed methodology produced a grossly exaggerated cost to federal taxpayers of legalizing unauthorized immigrants while undercounting or discounting their positive tax and economic contributions.”

DeMint dismissed the criticisms, including estimates by the Congressional Budget Office that say immigration reform will increase economic growth.

“Well, CBO said Obamacare wouldn’t cost us anything. They’re basically puppets of the Congress and the assumptions they put in the bill. Heritage is only organization that has done an analysis on the cost,” DeMint said.

“If you consider all the factors related to the amnesty – and, believe me, this is comprehensive – that it will have a negative long-term impact on our gross domestic product,” DeMint added. “So we just want Congress, for once, to count the cost of a bill. They’re notorious for underestimating the cost and not understanding the consequences.”
__________________
Posts: 44,043
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #7
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
The Bitch is back
 
Prison Bitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lees summit
Casino cash: $6445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
If DeMint is weighing in against immigration reform, then I don't see how this can get done.

DeMint is a barometer of the GOP base. If the GOP base can't get behind this, then the House can't pass shit. And immigration reform could be dead.

Hey, not trying to be a jerk here, but are you really still wondering about the GOP base on this topic? Isn't this the most obviously decided topic any voting block has? Why don't we discuss whether the Pro-Choicers can get behind a restrictive abortion law in some state. Or whether gun owners can get behind tougher gun control.


You can't possibly be confused on this. We already saw it fail in 2007 so it's not news.
Posts: 13,290
Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:03 PM   #8
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $5867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Hey, not trying to be a jerk here, but are you really still wondering about the GOP base on this topic? Isn't this the most obviously decided topic any voting block has?
This is an issue that overwhelming majorities support, with one exception: the GOP base.

Due to the House's gerrymandered structure, however, the GOP base runs the House.

Therefore, no immigration reform bill can get passed. Solely because the GOP base controls the House.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Why don't we discuss whether the Pro-Choicers can get behind a restrictive abortion law in some state. Or whether gun owners can get behind tougher gun control.
I've actually discussed those topic ad nauseum on this forum, and will continue discussing them in the future.

As for this thread, they are irrelevent. If you want to start a discussion about either of those topics in a separate thread, I'll be there.
__________________
Posts: 44,043
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #9
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
The Bitch is back
 
Prison Bitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lees summit
Casino cash: $6445
A person would have to be a brain dead moron if they couldn't see why the GOP base would be opposed to this.
Posts: 13,290
Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.Prison Bitch is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:16 PM   #10
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $5867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
A person would have to be a brain dead moron if they couldn't see why the GOP base would be opposed to this.
I understand why. I listen to talk radio aplenty.
__________________
Posts: 44,043
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:18 PM   #11
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W
Casino cash: $720
VARSITY
More hate.
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 76,366
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:21 PM   #12
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $5867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
More hate.
That's fair.

In actuality, though, it's easier than typing "strongly disapprove of."
__________________
Posts: 44,043
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:25 PM   #13
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W
Casino cash: $720
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
That's fair.

In actuality, though, it's easier than typing "strongly disapprove of."
Indeed, but it doesn't have quite the same connotation, now does it.
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 76,366
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:28 PM   #14
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $5867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Indeed, but it doesn't have quite the same connotation, now does it.
When discussing the GOP base, both are pretty apt descriptors.

Listen to talk radio for an afternoon.
__________________
Posts: 44,043
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:30 PM   #15
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W
Casino cash: $720
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
When discussing the GOP base, both are pretty apt descriptors.

Listen to talk radio for an afternoon.
More hate.
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 76,366
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.