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Old 05-22-2013, 07:54 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Why was there NO basement in that Oklahoma public school?

Professor Tom DiLorenzo hits the nail on the head why:



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In one of my earlier books I cited former New York City Mayor Ed Koch explaining why the city's "infrastructure" (sewer and water lines, bridges and roads, etc.) always seemed to be long overdue for maintenance and rebuilding: "It's hard to hold a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a new sewer line," said the mayor.

Government turns everything it touches into crap, and economics provides numerous explanations why. In this case, Mayor Koch hit the nail on the head: Politicians like himself will always spend taxpayers' money in a way that enhaces THEIR popularity and maximizes THEIR chances for re-election. There are orders of magnitude more votes to be had in handing out welfare benefits or lavish public employee pensions than in replacing leaky water lines. Public employees are well organized politically; the average taxpaying citizens are not.

As for Oklahoma City, news reports are that there was not an underground basement in that public school where nine children died during the tornado. An explanation is that when it comes to spending money on "schools," broadly defined, there are many, many more votes and campaign contributions to be had by spending the money on increased public school teacher and administrator salaries and pensions than on school building basements. Teachers' unions are famously well organized politically; average taxpayers are not. Putting a basement in a new school building will not motivate government school teachers to spend thousands of hours campaigning and driving voters to the polls in school buses. Promises of pay and pension increases will.
Don't be fooled by Prog claims they're looking out for your children or your interests. They are for lining their own pockets first. Whether it's for more bureaucratic jobs with pensions, pay increases or otherwise. This is why they see "greed" in businessmen primarily. They suffer from greed themselves. A Me First attitude.

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Old 05-22-2013, 07:58 AM   #2
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
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All right!

Nothing like trying to make political hay out of nine dead children!

Congrats on your descent into hell!
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:02 AM   #3
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
All right!

Nothing like trying to make political hay out of nine dead children!

Congrats on your descent into hell!
This is a political forum, no? I think so. This isn't the Lounge.

I don't see you saying anything like this about the other thread on the same incident. And when did you or others speak about Benghazi? People died there too.

I think this is an important question to ask so more kids don't needlessly die when it can be prevented. So your self-righteousness is misplaced.

Now did you donate?
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:31 AM   #4
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There must be about 50 private schools including Casady, Bishop McGuinness and the elementary religious schools. I don't know if they have basements. I don't remember Mcguinness having one there off Western. Are they better served? Will you put the time in and find out at least before making such broad statements.

The early recommendations was to include a basement but school board cut it for financial reasons. Didn't want to pay the taxes I guess?
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:38 AM   #5
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Trying to make this a political issue is stupid. Go try and dig a basement in the Oklahoma red clay, see how far you get....
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:41 AM   #6
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I didn't bring up that red clay soil because people from Florida have to deal with swamps in their basements. They can't imagine the lack of lateral strength that Oklahoma soil represents. Not quite as bad as water.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
There must be about 50 private schools including Casady, Bishop McGuinness and the elementary religious schools. I don't know if they have basements. I don't remember Mcguinness having one there off Western. Are they better served? Will you put the time in and find out at least before making such broad statements.
The thread about a basement is a question—not a statement. The response to it by diLorenzo is about where increases for education go generally. Tell me how that's not factual, especially when more money is called for in education funds routinely.

Quote:
The early recommendations was to include a basement but school board cut it for financial reasons. Didn't want to pay the taxes I guess?
Well there you go. Or any increases went to salaries and pensions? Look, they live in an area prone to such tornadoes. Per the news I watched they've had to rebuild several times. So why not just invest in more protection instead. Lives can't be replaced as easily as structures.

There is a material used for storm shelters that can withstand tornado forces that aren't underground. I forget what it's called, but there was science program about them I saw years ago.


I just read this:

Oklahoma’s Dangerous Dearth of Storm Cellars
http://business.time.com/2013/05/22/...storm-cellars/
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Trying to make this a political issue is stupid. Go try and dig a basement in the Oklahoma red clay, see how far you get....
So why are you here then?

JHC, if teacher's unions can organize for funds why not on this.

They do have options:

Oklahoma’s Dangerous Dearth of Storm Cellars
http://business.time.com/2013/05/22/...storm-cellars/
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:49 AM   #9
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Taking shots at teachers after they are the ones that shielded the children from debris in Oklahoma and from bullets in Connecticut? DiLorenzo is a big man to make those claims while he sits safely inside his office. Show me the vote where the teachers agreed to take the basement money in the form of a raise.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
I didn't bring up that red clay soil because people from Florida have to deal with swamps in their basements. They can't imagine the lack of lateral strength that Oklahoma soil represents. Not quite as bad as water.
We don't have basements. ( not that I like it) Our tornadoes are usually not that strong though.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:50 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
Taking shots at teachers after they are the ones that shielded the children from debris in Oklahoma and from bullets in Connecticut? DiLorenzo is a big man to make those claims while he sits safely inside his office. Show me the vote where the teachers agreed to take the basement money in the form of a raise.
No one is taking shots at just teachers individually per se—but at what funds are used for instead.
I mean unions are unions. Besides, providing a shelter would make their job easier and keep them safer too.
How many times has this town been rebuilt?
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #12
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I think most newer schools in Oklahoma have some type of shelter built into them.
From what I have heard on the news the school that the kids were in was built back in the 60s. I have been building basements for over 25 years. Its what I do for a living. Red Clay in Oklahoma is no match for a bulldozer.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveSteam View Post
I think most newer schools in Oklahoma have some type of shelter built into them.
From what I have heard on the news the school that the kids were in was built back in the 60s. I have been building basements for over 25 years. Its what I do for a living. Red Clay in Oklahoma is no match for a bulldozer.
Okay. That's fair. The news I saw said the town and a school were rebuilt several times after a tornado. I thought it was the same school.

Some homes build a small structure in one spot under their home. They showed the mother with two kids, who did this was on tv. She said it was the best investment she ever made. What about those tornado structures that can withstand a tornado. These are above ground.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #14
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So is the point of this that the teacher's union in OK asked for raises instead of basements at the schools?

or is it just more DC horseshit?
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #15
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Your statement was that government could not make the correct choice implying the industry or private enterprise gets it correct, I suppose by divine providence. The question of funding the basement was a choice based upon many factors. The choice to insure your building is earthquake proof in California or Hurricane proof in Florida are sometimes made with the notion that you insure the lost of building. Did the school board have insurance on the building. The correct answer in hindsight is always better FOR A SPECIFIC SIGHT AND CHOICE vs random happenings. How many schools without basements were not hit and those teachers now are a community source for this disaster.
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