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Old 05-22-2013, 07:54 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Why was there NO basement in that Oklahoma public school?

Professor Tom DiLorenzo hits the nail on the head why:



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In one of my earlier books I cited former New York City Mayor Ed Koch explaining why the city's "infrastructure" (sewer and water lines, bridges and roads, etc.) always seemed to be long overdue for maintenance and rebuilding: "It's hard to hold a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a new sewer line," said the mayor.

Government turns everything it touches into crap, and economics provides numerous explanations why. In this case, Mayor Koch hit the nail on the head: Politicians like himself will always spend taxpayers' money in a way that enhaces THEIR popularity and maximizes THEIR chances for re-election. There are orders of magnitude more votes to be had in handing out welfare benefits or lavish public employee pensions than in replacing leaky water lines. Public employees are well organized politically; the average taxpaying citizens are not.

As for Oklahoma City, news reports are that there was not an underground basement in that public school where nine children died during the tornado. An explanation is that when it comes to spending money on "schools," broadly defined, there are many, many more votes and campaign contributions to be had by spending the money on increased public school teacher and administrator salaries and pensions than on school building basements. Teachers' unions are famously well organized politically; average taxpayers are not. Putting a basement in a new school building will not motivate government school teachers to spend thousands of hours campaigning and driving voters to the polls in school buses. Promises of pay and pension increases will.
Don't be fooled by Prog claims they're looking out for your children or your interests. They are for lining their own pockets first. Whether it's for more bureaucratic jobs with pensions, pay increases or otherwise. This is why they see "greed" in businessmen primarily. They suffer from greed themselves. A Me First attitude.

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Old 05-22-2013, 11:15 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
What's the cost of living there? What are their pensions? Either way, looks like there's room to add money for a school shelter.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:24 AM   #32
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Aside from the rare danger of a tornado, why does a public school need a basement?
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Aside from the rare danger of a tornado, why does a public school need a basement?
Rare? The news said that town has had to rebuild more than once due to tornadoes.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #34
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In fact, this was the fifth major tornado in fifteen years for this town.

Moore, Oklahoma, May Be the Tornado Capital of America

In 1999, the Oklahoma town was hit with a tornado that clocked the highest winds ever on Earth—and it followed an eerily similar path to Monday’s twister.

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When the next major tornado hit in May 2003, Moore had prepared.

Residents built storm shelters and 6,000 safe rooms, which are concrete bunkers built above ground that can withstand winds over 250 miles per hour, and cost about $5,000 to build. FEMA offered loans to help Oklahomans rebuild their homes with the next twister in mind. Inventors worked on tornado-safe beds, anchored by foam-lined steel bunkers instead of box springs. Researchers worked on stronger roofs and solid foundations for Moore homes.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...f-america.html
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:30 AM   #35
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FWIW, in my childhood hometown in Missouri where basements are ubiquitous, none of the schools had basements other than tiny storage rooms (and where the photography dark room was located in the case of the high school). The response to a tornado was to open windows, move to interior hallways, duck, and cover.

The threat of a tornado like the one that hit OKC is so remote that building basements in response seems like gold plating to me.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
FWIW, in my childhood hometown in Missouri where basements are ubiquitous, none of the schools had basements other than tiny storage rooms (and where the photography dark room was located in the case of the high school). The response to a tornado was to open windows, move to interior hallways, duck, and cover.

The threat of a tornado like the one that hit OKC is so remote that building basements in response seems like gold plating to me.
Five tornadoes in fifteen years isn't my idea of remote. Like I said earlier in the thread, there are other less expensive options. Lives of children certainly are worth some investment.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:33 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Rare? The news said that town has had to rebuild more than once due to tornadoes.
"Towns" almost never have to rebuild as the result of a tornado. Tornadoes are generally narrow paths of destruction. This one was an anomaly in the sense that it was a mile or more wide. To the extent that they're talking about rebuilding, I'm pretty confident that they're talking about a few buildings here or there, not large swaths of the town.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:35 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Five tornadoes in fifteen years isn't my idea of remote. Like I said earlier in the thread, there are other less expensive options. Lives of children certainly are worth some investment.
How many schools have been leveled in those previous four tornadoes? In fact, how many school children have even been injured (while in school) in those tornadoes? I bet the answer is close to zero.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:40 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
What's the cost of living there? What are their pensions? Either way, looks like there's room to add money for a school shelter.
From what I can tell that rating is an index of "comfortability" based on salary. This index takes cost of living into account. Here's a blurb from the site:

The TeacherPortal Salary Comfort Score is a proprietary way to tell how far a teacher's salary will go in each state. We look at cost-of-living, average salaries, starting salaries, and more. Then we rank the states - the lower the number, the more "comfortable" your teacher's salary will be.

At any rate it's not an either/or situation. Teacher's salaries and benefits have no real bearing on school infrastructure other than the fact that taxes pay for both. A more reasonable method would be a vote for a bond issue, most likely funded by property tax in the school's district.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:55 AM   #40
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So this isn't a "we should do more to help the kids" thread, but a "unions are the devil" thread. Got it.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:58 AM   #41
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So this isn't a "we should do more to help the kids" thread, but a "unions are the devil" thread. Got it.
It started off as a "free market would save our kids" thread, but quickly took a turn into "unions are the debbil" when evidence of original claim was requested.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:07 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
In fact, this was the fifth major tornado in fifteen years for this town.

Moore, Oklahoma, May Be the Tornado Capital of America


http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...f-america.html
Since more happen here than any other country in the world, I believe that elevates Moore Oklahoma to the Tornado Capital of Planet Earth
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:08 PM   #43
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It started off as a "free market would save our kids" thread, but quickly took a turn into "unions are the debbil" when evidence of original claim was requested.
that's what happens when you post in DC/anti DC Lounge Lurkers
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:34 PM   #44
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Personally, I'd think if I lived in a town where tornadoes were "common", I'd move my family if their safety was my priority...but of course when you can blame somebody else, let's go for it...especially greedy teachers...so popular nowadays.

Were parents kept in the dark about the school not having a shelter? Doubt it...wasn't a priority until now.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:37 PM   #45
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That Joplin Walmart didn't have basements and people died. This shows the failure of market based systems, so we should switch from retail stores to government-run wealth redistribution centers with madated storm shelters!
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