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Old 05-22-2013, 07:54 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Why was there NO basement in that Oklahoma public school?

Professor Tom DiLorenzo hits the nail on the head why:



Quote:
In one of my earlier books I cited former New York City Mayor Ed Koch explaining why the city's "infrastructure" (sewer and water lines, bridges and roads, etc.) always seemed to be long overdue for maintenance and rebuilding: "It's hard to hold a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a new sewer line," said the mayor.

Government turns everything it touches into crap, and economics provides numerous explanations why. In this case, Mayor Koch hit the nail on the head: Politicians like himself will always spend taxpayers' money in a way that enhaces THEIR popularity and maximizes THEIR chances for re-election. There are orders of magnitude more votes to be had in handing out welfare benefits or lavish public employee pensions than in replacing leaky water lines. Public employees are well organized politically; the average taxpaying citizens are not.

As for Oklahoma City, news reports are that there was not an underground basement in that public school where nine children died during the tornado. An explanation is that when it comes to spending money on "schools," broadly defined, there are many, many more votes and campaign contributions to be had by spending the money on increased public school teacher and administrator salaries and pensions than on school building basements. Teachers' unions are famously well organized politically; average taxpayers are not. Putting a basement in a new school building will not motivate government school teachers to spend thousands of hours campaigning and driving voters to the polls in school buses. Promises of pay and pension increases will.
Don't be fooled by Prog claims they're looking out for your children or your interests. They are for lining their own pockets first. Whether it's for more bureaucratic jobs with pensions, pay increases or otherwise. This is why they see "greed" in businessmen primarily. They suffer from greed themselves. A Me First attitude.

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Old 05-22-2013, 12:47 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
That Joplin Walmart didn't have basements and people died. This shows the failure of market based systems, so we should switch from retail stores to government-run wealth redistribution centers with madated storm shelters!
I know that's tongue-in-cheek, but what it really shows is that the market can be good at removing the emotional, economically-illogical over-reactions from a decision that we commonly find when government provides solutions.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:53 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Personally, I'd think if I lived in a town where tornadoes were "common", I'd move my family if their safety was my priority...but of course when you can blame somebody else, let's go for it...especially greedy teachers...so popular nowadays.

Were parents kept in the dark about the school not having a shelter? Doubt it...wasn't a priority until now.
Right. If Moore is an unusually common target for massive tornadoes, then anyone who is now complaining that the school didn't have a basement should have either already moved or they should have directed their school boards to build basements (if that's something they want their tax dollars spent on). I doubt that there are more than a handful of people in that school district who raised any objection to the lack of a basement and it wouldn't surprise me if no one objected at all.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:56 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Personally, I'd think if I lived in a town where tornadoes were "common", I'd move my family if their safety was my priority...but of course when you can blame somebody else, let's go for it...especially greedy teachers...so popular nowadays.

Were parents kept in the dark about the school not having a shelter? Doubt it...wasn't a priority until now.
Um, it was teacher unions, which are like other unions, and politicians.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
"Towns" almost never have to rebuild as the result of a tornado. Tornadoes are generally narrow paths of destruction. This one was an anomaly in the sense that it was a mile or more wide. To the extent that they're talking about rebuilding, I'm pretty confident that they're talking about a few buildings here or there, not large swaths of the town.
Well, then the media last night lied about Moore being rebuilt before.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
It started off as a "free market would save our kids" thread, but quickly took a turn into "unions are the debbil" when evidence of original claim was requested.
No it started as a point about how city's ''infrastructure" (sewer and water lines, bridges and roads, etc.) always seemed to be long overdue for maintenance and rebuilding: "It's hard to hold a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a new sewer line,' said the mayor."

Ever notice how bad the roads are in some places while politicians spend lavishly on things that help them get elected? NY and NJ areas are notorious for such things.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:01 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Um, it was teacher unions, which are like other unions and politicians.
Well I stand corrected because the general public is so good at separating the teachers from their unions.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post

Oklahoma’s Dangerous Dearth of Storm Cellars
http://business.time.com/2013/05/22/...storm-cellars/

So your article establishes that many businesses and private residences also don't have cellars.

So this isn't a "government" failing, specifically. Even where people have individual motivations to have a cellar for their own safety, they don't.

So you have blown yourself up spectacularly... Normally it takes at least some effort by others to blow you away, but this time you planted the c4 up your own rectum. Well done.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, then the media last night lied about Moore being rebuilt before.
After seeing a bit more about the history of Moore, it does seem like they've had some unusual experience with large tornadoes, so it might not have been as much of an exaggeration as I initially thought. That said, even these massive tornadoes only directly impact a portion of the town. If you look at the path of devastation for this recent tornado, you can see homes flattened and homes untouched within a few hundred feet of one another.

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Old 05-22-2013, 01:04 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
That Joplin Walmart didn't have basements and people died. This shows the failure of market based systems, so we should switch from retail stores to government-run wealth redistribution centers with madated storm shelters!
I find it interesting as shown in one of those links I posted, how many more private individuals did start to prepare better due to being hit as often as they had been.

As towns grow, and population expands, there's bound to be more people in the line of powerful tornadoes in that part of the country, than in the past when population was sparse. I think it's time for communities to think about more preparedness. And to set aside the funds. I find it odd that you don't agree with this idea, since I thought you were a big infrastructure guy courtesy of government.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
How many schools have been leveled in those previous four tornadoes? In fact, how many school children have even been injured (while in school) in those tornadoes? I bet the answer is close to zero.

You're not playing the game right. The game is to always criticize government. If they build basements everywhere when there is a close to zero chance of anyone getting hurt by a tornado and the basements are more difficult/expensive because of the soil, then it's a government boondoggle for the benefit of contractors. If someone gets hurt because there are no basements then it's a massive failure by the government to build them because they're more focused on supporting the teacher's union and having ribbon cutting ceremonies.

Now FFS get it straight.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:07 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
After seeing a bit more about the history of Moore, it does seem like they've had some unusual experience with large tornadoes, so it might not have been as much of an exaggeration as I initially thought. That said, even these massive tornadoes only directly impact a portion of the town. If you look at the path of devastation for this recent tornado, you can see homes flattened and homes untouched within a few hundred feet of one another.
Yes, but how will they know what part will get taken out next? It's not predictable.
I am just talking about more preparedness to save lives.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:08 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Well I stand corrected because the general public is so good at separating the teachers from their unions.
You still omitted the politicians.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:10 PM   #58
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This is a thing? People are mad that a school didn't have a basement?
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:11 PM   #59
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I still think DiLorenzo's point about govt/politicians has validity here.

Not many libertarians here I guess.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowener View Post
This is a thing? People are mad that a school didn't have a basement?
Um, no, read the quote. Don't omit the parts that shape the message. Particularly the part of saving lives.
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