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Old 05-24-2013, 10:19 PM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Does welfare cause terrorism?

Mickey Kaus asks the question:
Does welfare cause terrorism?
Mickey Kaus
5/23/2013

How long before we find out that “alleged” Woolwich murderer Michael Adebolajo was on some kind of welfare? Or else his household was on welfare. The Tsarnaevs received various kinds of welfare too, of course, as have numerous other terrorists. This is not a coincidence:

“In fact, there’s a good argument that “welfare benefits + ethnic antagonism” is the universal recipe for an underclass with an angry, oppositional culture. The social logic is simple: Ethnic differences make it easy for those outside of, for example, French Arab neighborhoods to discriminate against those inside, and easy for those inside to resent the mainstream culture around them. Meanwhile, relatively generous welfare benefits enable those in the ethnic ghetto to stay there, stay unemployed, and seethe. Without government subsidies, they would have to overcome the prejudice against them and integrate into the mainstream working culture. Work, in this sense, is anti-terrorist medicine. (And if you work all day, there’s less time to dream up ways and reasons to kill infidels.)”

If Adebolajo turns out to have earned his own living, I’ll be surprised and chastened. Will post update in this space. …
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:44 AM   #46
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Does neo conservatism cause terrorism?

Yes.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:22 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
While I don't think Mickey Kaus is a member of either political party, he is a liberal who supported Hillary Clinton in 2008.



The Boston Marathon bombing was committed by white people. For that matter, the hijackers on 9/11 were white too.

More fail by Loneiguana.
The Hijackers were on public assistance?
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:23 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You did exactly what Saul Good described. You dismissed the Kaus theory because it didn't fit your paradigm for the causes of strife in a minority ghetto or for the impact of welfare.

I think it's possible that welfare can pacify, but I think it's also possible for welfare to retard assimilation. Those competing influences may have different impacts on different people/groups of people and on different types of strife. For example, welfare might tend to pacify when it comes property crime and violence associated with it because recipients aren't dirt poor and desperate. But I'm not sure it does anything to pacify violence triggered by personal antipathy, jealousy or revenge. Assimilation, on the other hand, might pacify that type of violence. I don't know that either of those theories are right, but I don't reject either of them out of hand.
I addressed your article. You didn't actually address any of the points I made.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:03 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
You are defining irony with your every post.

I dismissed it because it was an illogical statement absent of support. I mentioned nothing about the impact of welfare programs within ghettos or inner cities. You inferred that. My statements were all relative to welfare as pacification writ large. In fact, when I did briefly provide greater detail, I focused on foreign countries and insurgency. The mention of the inner city was neither expressed nor implied.

Have you ever considered that sometimes idiotic statements are dismissed not out of political bias, but due to the inherent idiocy of the statement itself?

I realize that's probably hard for you to grasp, as you have continually hold up icons and thoughts and beyond reproach (again, irony), then assail others when they problematize a vacuous idea.
You've failed to address the Kaus theory in almost every one of your posts. I'm still not sure you've read it. And if you have, you've certainly interpreted it in the most nonsensical way possible.

First you bring up the entirely irrelevant tactic in Iraq of paying tribal leaders to turn them away from al Qaeda. Then you start talking about a colonial uprising in Algiers. And when you said something generic about welfare that might have been relevant, you simply waved away the theory and declared that it just doesn't happen that way. No relevant discussion at all.

And in this post, you deny that your previous posts have even been minimally relevant by rejecting the inference I made in order to somehow connect your dogmatic thoughts to the issue at hand. If you decide to comment on the Kaus theory that welfare retards assimilation (and can therefore provide a spawning pool for terrorism and ethnic strife), I'm all ears.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:04 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan View Post



Let's start again:



Absolutely not!


I never think "national"
OK. Thanks.

Why not?
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:08 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The Hijackers were on public assistance?
I don't know whether they were or not. This is a perfect example of your ADD style of argument. The hijackers were caucasian. We see plenty of white people commit acts of terrorism.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:17 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I addressed your article. You didn't actually address any of the points I made.
You blathered about "Republican lies" in a thread about the theory of a liberal.

Then you tried to disprove the theory that was explicitly focused on people for whom welfare provides a crutch to enable them to stay unemployed by pointing out that there's an entirely different and perhaps even larger group of people who work while receiving other forms of welfare. That's called missing the point.

Your silly comment about not seeing more white terrorists misses the point too. The theory is about a group of people who are ethnically and culturally separated from the larger society in which they live. The theory is that welfare helps retard assimilation of that group into the host society. You can't look to the statistics over a broad base of welfare recipients in order to draw conclusions about a narrow group of those recipients with special characteristics. It's particularly hard to do when you don't understand what you're trying to prove/disprove.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:19 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
Patteu,

shtsprayer thanks you. This is like porn to him and because of you he rubbed one off
Good to hear. Tell him I said he's welcome.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:25 AM
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:43 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
While I don't think Mickey Kaus is a member of either political party, he is a liberal who supported Hillary Clinton in 2008.

The Boston Marathon bombing was committed by white people. For that matter, the hijackers on 9/11 were white too.
More fail by Loneiguana.
9/11, the Islamic group Al Qaeda carried out four coordinated terrorist attacks on US soil.

Osama bin Laden, who lead the group, aim was to overthrow governments in the Middle East. Attacks against the US were intended to reduce support for these countries. Bin Laden's main goal was to create a global order under Islamic rule.

Fifteen of the 19 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. Two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon.

Now you know.


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Old 05-26-2013, 10:51 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
No but religion does.
Poor people are more drawn to religion.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:53 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You've failed to address the Kaus theory in almost every one of your posts. I'm still not sure you've read it. And if you have, you've certainly interpreted it in the most nonsensical way possible.

First you bring up the entirely irrelevant tactic in Iraq of paying tribal leaders to turn them away from al Qaeda. Then you start talking about a colonial uprising in Algiers. And when you said something generic about welfare that might have been relevant, you simply waved away the theory and declared that it just doesn't happen that way. No relevant discussion at all.

And in this post, you deny that your previous posts have even been minimally relevant by rejecting the inference I made in order to somehow connect your dogmatic thoughts to the issue at hand. If you decide to comment on the Kaus theory that welfare retards assimilation (and can therefore provide a spawning pool for terrorism and ethnic strife), I'm all ears.
That's because I was actually talking about terrorism. Please, point me to the thousands of terrorist attacks committed by people on US-style welfare.

If welfare caused terrorism, then countries with developed welfare states would have incredibly high rates of terrorism.

It just so happens that they don't. Moreover, payments made via the surge demonstrate that prospective terrorists are dissuaded simply by providing them money.

Furthermore, I offered two texts that would offer you an actual ability to understand the root causes of terrorism, texts that the State Department required their employees to watch during the Iraq War, FWIW.

All of this proves my point. You're not actually interested in finding out the root causes of terrorism, which is an important, meaningful exercise. Like Kaus, you would rather erroneously project your hatred of a welfare system onto terrorism, as it gives you another reason to hate said system, no matter how illogical, no matter how lacking in evidence.

I'm not talking about advanced theoretical concepts here. This information is elementary, and yet it's totally lost on you.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:57 AM   #57
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I suppose it could, but I would imagine that would be more correlation than causation.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:33 AM   #58
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I suppose it could, but I would imagine that would be more correlation than causation.
Post #24.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
correlation does not imply causation
Ya think? And yet right wing nutjobs keep yammering about it....as if they have something profound to say. Imagine that.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:56 AM   #59
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Mickey Kaus is a complete idiot for his pointless argument. Additionally, it proves that he has zero knowledge about terrorist groups.

The real question I have to ask myself, why I responded to a complete fabrication that serves to push the writer’s ridiculous narrative.

That is all.

Have a nice weekend.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:43 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan View Post
9/11, the Islamic group Al Qaeda carried out four coordinated terrorist attacks on US soil.

Osama bin Laden, who lead the group, aim was to overthrow governments in the Middle East. Attacks against the US were intended to reduce support for these countries. Bin Laden's main goal was to create a global order under Islamic rule.

Fifteen of the 19 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. Two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon.

Now you know.


“Knowledge is only the foundation upon which larger understandings are based.”
OK, I understand all of that. Your posts in this thread are hard for me to interpret. I have no idea what your point is.
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