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Old 05-25-2013, 08:50 PM  
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

It's all about works, just as it always has been and always should be. The pope says so!

Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace.

Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”

Pope Francis went further in his sermon to say:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Responding to the leader of the Roman Catholic church's homily, Father James Martin, S.J. wrote in an email to The Huffington Post:

"Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."

Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don't believe will be redeemed, and the Pope's words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.

The pope's comment has also struck a chord on Reddit, where it is the second most-shared piece.

More from Reuters:

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis said on Wednesday in his latest urging that people of all religions - or no religion - work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning Mass in his residence, a daily event where he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical conversation in which someone told a priest: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:15 AM   #16
vailpass vailpass is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
This is actually kinda old news. The Catholic Church has pretty much had this stance for ages now but many (even inside the Church itself) are fairly ignorant when it comes to ACTUAL Catholic teachings and philosophy. I've tried to explain this to people for years and generally get looked at like I have no clue what I'm saying and that this can't possibly be true. The Catholic Church is far far far less exclusionary than most Christian denominations that Americans are used to.

Of course most Catholics down here in Texas and the South are just Baptists who can read.
Spot on.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:52 AM   #17
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Nice to see the new Pope is a flip flopper.

Really adds to the Church's pile of bullshit.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:38 AM   #18
Backwards Masking Backwards Masking is offline
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Nice to see the new Pope is a flip flopper.

Really adds to the Church's pile of bullshit.
even though i've always thought the Catholic Church is the most's #1 distributor of human misery (which it is) i did have to admit and respect the fact they stuck to their guns.

now they don't even have that. looks like baptists, Phelps and Westboro are the last ones standing in that respect.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:32 PM   #19
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
This is actually kinda old news. The Catholic Church has pretty much had this stance for ages now but many (even inside the Church itself) are fairly ignorant when it comes to ACTUAL Catholic teachings and philosophy. I've tried to explain this to people for years and generally get looked at like I have no clue what I'm saying and that this can't possibly be true.
Well, you're the one with no clue because this is completely false that this is old news. There was no salvation outside the Catholic Church for as along as I can remember. There was some recent change in the Catechism... but this is not old news.

This pope sounds like a heretic.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:48 PM   #20
King_Chief_Fan King_Chief_Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Well the good news is no more of this ridiculous jesus mumbo jumbo crap. Thank god.
You are wrong
John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


John 6:40

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”



John 10:9

I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture

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Ephesians 2:8-10

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8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:50 PM   #21
King_Chief_Fan King_Chief_Fan is offline
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[quote=scott free;9709829]I bet many Christians believe like i do, that the old teachings of "good works will not get you into Heaven" are words written by a man with that belief, not by God himself.

Compassion for and caring for people is about as God-like as it gets, imo... they may not be looking for converts, but they love their fellow man and hurt inside when they see someone suffering, and thats what counts to the God i believe in.[/quote]

yes....plus accepting Christ as Savior
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English Standard Version (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:59 PM   #22
Count Zarth Count Zarth is online now
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What about atheists who don't want to go to heaven?
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:13 PM   #23
nstygma nstygma is offline
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What about atheists who don't want to go to heaven?
their punishment is eternity in heaven. suck it dave!
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:37 PM   #24
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What about atheists who don't want to go to heaven?
Good point. I would suspect DL being a stand up guy he'd turn it down solely based on principle. Maybe that's where ghosts come from.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:42 PM   #25
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It amazes me people still pay attention to this circus act. If it was not for this place I wouldn't have read what he said~
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, you're the one with no clue because this is completely false that this is old news. There was no salvation outside the Catholic Church for as along as I can remember. There was some recent change in the Catechism... but this is not old news.

This pope sounds like a heretic.
Our parish priest was preaching the exact same thing 40 years ago. I suspect he was not the only one.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:08 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, you're the one with no clue because this is completely false that this is old news. There was no salvation outside the Catholic Church for as along as I can remember. There was some recent change in the Catechism... but this is not old news.

This pope sounds like a heretic.
Then you have been seriously misled.

See guys, this is what I am talking about. People who think they know something about the Catholic Church that spout off as if it is fact when in reality they are clueless. It frankly amazes me that you want to wade into this argument with me. I'll warn you right now, you're far far far out of your depth on this.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:11 PM   #28
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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Our parish priest was preaching the exact same thing 40 years ago. I suspect he was not the only one.
Exactly, that is the sad reality. Too many ignorant diocesan priests that have spewed garbage like this and it gets parroted back by those who never bother to dig any deeper.

Let me put it in terms she can maybe understand... Just because your local city council member tells you that free speech is not protected by the Constitution .. doesn't mean that it is so. If you don't have the capacity to understand the Constitution for yourself than at least look for guidance from the Supreme Court... not Joe Politician. That analogy make sense?

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Old 05-26-2013, 08:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
This pope sounds like a heretic.
btw.. this qualifies as one of the dumbest things you have ever typed on this board... which is saying quite a bit. The POPE is a heretic... because YOU know the Church soooo much better than he does. You are ****ing delusional. You off your meds?
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
btw.. this qualifies as one of the dumbest things you have ever typed on this board... which is saying quite a bit. The POPE is a heretic... because YOU know the Church soooo much better than he does. You are ****ing delusional. You off your meds?
There really is no other response than to that.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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