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Old 05-25-2013, 08:50 PM  
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

It's all about works, just as it always has been and always should be. The pope says so!

Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace.

Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”

Pope Francis went further in his sermon to say:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Responding to the leader of the Roman Catholic church's homily, Father James Martin, S.J. wrote in an email to The Huffington Post:

"Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."

Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don't believe will be redeemed, and the Pope's words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.

The pope's comment has also struck a chord on Reddit, where it is the second most-shared piece.

More from Reuters:

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis said on Wednesday in his latest urging that people of all religions - or no religion - work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning Mass in his residence, a daily event where he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical conversation in which someone told a priest: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:57 PM   #31
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:58 PM   #32
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btw.. this qualifies as one of the dumbest things you have ever typed on this board... which is saying quite a bit. The POPE is a heretic... because YOU know the Church soooo much better than he does. You are ****ing delusional. You off your meds?
so the pope is holier than anyone else? closer to God?
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
btw.. this qualifies as one of the dumbest things you have ever typed on this board... which is saying quite a bit. The POPE is a heretic... because YOU know the Church soooo much better than he does. You are ****ing delusional. You off your meds?
There's just so, so many to choose from.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:05 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
so the pope is holier than anyone else? closer to God?
Which part of 'infallible' don't you understand?
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:05 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Then you have been seriously misled.

See guys, this is what I am talking about. People who think they know something about the Catholic Church that spout off as if it is fact when in reality they are clueless. It frankly amazes me that you want to wade into this argument with me. I'll warn you right now, you're far far far out of your depth on this.
Nope.

Were you raised Catholic? Go to Catholic School for 8 years? Attend a Catholic College for two years? Have you ever been taught by any Catholic scholar who knows the Bible as well as Canon Law and Catholic History....including some of the alterations from Vatican II, that some disagree with?

No need to answer, because I know you haven't.

There's been bad popes in the past who sinned and fell to corruption like selling indulgences before too. There's some funky stuff going on at the Vatican these days.
It sounds infiltrated.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Our parish priest was preaching the exact same thing 40 years ago. I suspect he was not the only one.
There have always been Catholic priests that don't understand Catholicism or who have even gone rogue. Doesn't mean they were selling the correct RC faith. You seen this in other faiths too. It's no wonder Christianity is so badly splintered into thousands of groups.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:09 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
btw.. this qualifies as one of the dumbest things you have ever typed on this board... which is saying quite a bit. The POPE is a heretic... because YOU know the Church soooo much better than he does. You are ****ing delusional. You off your meds?
Nope that's not why. This qualifies as one of the dumbest things you have ever typed on this board. Works are not enough, one must accept Christ too. It's a key difference between Catholics and Protestants. Protestants say just accepting Christ as a savior without works is enough.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:20 PM   #38
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Turns out that it's not QUITE what this Pope actually said!

There's a catch. They can be good people if they do good...and hopefully this leads to them discovering Christ. Condemning them while they do good "hinders" them.

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The Holy Father is full of surprises, born of true and faithful humility. On Wednesday he declared that all people, not just Catholics, are redeemed through Jesus, even atheists.

However, he did emphasize there was a catch. Those people must still do good. In fact, it is in doing good that they are led to the One who is the Source of all that is good. In essence he simply restated the hope of the Church that all come to know God, through His Son Jesus Christ. ..


"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point." ...


The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient.
Catholicism holds that good works without faith is not enough. One must accept Christ.
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:23 PM   #39
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Good works are nice, but in the end...

No dice.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:48 PM   #40
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Romans 2.5-11

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:53 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
so the pope is holier than anyone else? closer to God?
Depends on your point of view... but in THIS instance that has no bearing. What I am saying is that he damn well has studied Catholic theology quite a bit more than anyone here. It would be equivalent to a retarded 8 year old telling Buzz Aldrin that he doesn't know shit about the moon.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:58 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
There's a catch. They can be good people if they do good...and hopefully this leads to them discovering Christ. Condemning them while they do good "hinders" them.

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The Holy Father is full of surprises, born of true and faithful humility. On Wednesday he declared that all people, not just Catholics, are redeemed through Jesus, even atheists.

However, he did emphasize there was a catch. Those people must still do good. In fact, it is in doing good that they are led to the One who is the Source of all that is good. In essence he simply restated the hope of the Church that all come to know God, through His Son Jesus Christ. ..


"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point." ...


The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient.
Catholicism holds that good works without faith is not enough. One must accept Christ.
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077
In fact it is far far more complicated than that but I wouldn't expect your ****ing ridiculously simplistic world view to be able to comprehend any of it.

Of course you didn't make this claim. YOU claimed that there was "no salvation outside the Catholic Church." That is 100% false. The fact that you made that statement proves how ridiculously ignorant you are of these matters.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:04 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope.

Were you raised Catholic? Go to Catholic School for 8 years? Attend a Catholic College for two years? Have you ever been taught by any Catholic scholar who knows the Bible as well as Canon Law and Catholic History....including some of the alterations from Vatican II, that some disagree with?

No need to answer, because I know you haven't.
Listen bitch, no, you don't know shit about my Catholic knowledge. I have 13 years of Catholic education, was raised Catholic, my best friend is a Catholic scholar who studied under Cardinal Von Schonborn at Frisborg. I have had countless classes in Catholic philosophy. I've studied the works of Mortimer J Adler. I have been steeped in these things my entire life and UNLIKE YOU.. I have a reasonable understanding of them.

the following video is tailor made for you...

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Old 05-27-2013, 06:01 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope that's not why. This qualifies as one of the dumbest things you have ever typed on this board. Works are not enough, one must accept Christ too. It's a key difference between Catholics and Protestants. Protestants say just accepting Christ as a savior without works is enough.
I've been a Protestant my entire life; every church I've belonged to has taught that faith without works is dead faith (James 2).

What Protestants are you referring to?
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:50 AM   #45
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In fact it is far far more complicated than that but I wouldn't expect your ****ing ridiculously simplistic world view to be able to comprehend any of it.

Of course you didn't make this claim. YOU claimed that there was "no salvation outside the Catholic Church." That is 100% false. The fact that you made that statement proves how ridiculously ignorant you are of these matters.
Nope.

Not according to well versed scholars of the religion.

Your use of abusive ad hominem, and over emotional reaction, is quite revealing of your own ignorance. It's called projection.
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