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Old 05-30-2013, 07:48 AM  
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
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Privacy a looming issue as drone regulation loosens

I don’t start many topics but thought this would be an interesting one to see hashed out.
Personally, if the guy flying the drone over my property told me to get bent I’d grab my shotgun and blow his expensive little toy up.


Quote:
Privacy a looming issue as drone regulation loosens

ATLANTA—Earlier this month, a woman in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle noticed a small camera-equipped drone buzzing around outside the third-floor window of her home. She sent her husband out to tell the man operating the small aircraft by remote control to leave, but he insisted that it was legal for him to fly above their property.

“We are extremely concerned, as he could very easily be a criminal who plans to break into our house or a peeping-tom,” the woman complained in a note to a local blog.

So was the drone operator right when he insisted that it was legal for him to fly above this woman’s yard?

The question doesn’t have an easy answer, and it’s one that some drone researchers gathered this week in Atlanta for an international conference on unmanned aircraft are grappling with.

Paul Voss, an engineer at Smith College who entered the drone field through his work developing the world’s smallest altitude-controlled meteorological balloons, gave a talk at the conference Wednesday titled “The Case for Protecting Privacy and Property Rights in the Lowermost Reaches of the Atmosphere.” He argued that the drone community should be proactive in addressing privacy concerns now, before the number of drones in flight skyrockets when regulations are eased in the next few years.

At the beginning of his talk, Voss showed a photo of a drone hovering outside the second-floor window of a home, and asked the class, “How many of you think this is public airspace?” Only one person raised his hand.

Voss thinks that one student is probably right, though it's a legal gray area. The Supreme Court ruled in 1946 that the air above the minimum safe altitude of flight “is a public highway” and not subject to trespassing laws. The ruling reversed a lower court’s judgment in favor of a chicken farmer who lost 150 chickens due to fighter planes flying less than 100 feet over his roof on their way to a local airbase. (The chickens were so scared by the thunderous noise that they threw themselves against the wall and killed themselves.)

The court did, however, say that homeowners should have “exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere” so that they can build homes, plant trees and erect fences, for example. It’s unclear how many feet in the air, exactly, that extends to, as Justice William O. Douglas did not go into detail in the opinion.

That’s been the court’s final word, and the ruling suggests that drones can fly quite close above people’s property and be on safe legal ground.

But the bigger threat to privacy is less likely to come from nosy neighbors with tiny camera-equipped model aircraft than from well-funded law enforcement agencies or businesses that can afford to launch sophisticated drones with high-power cameras.

Brandon Stark, a drone researcher at the University of California, Merced, told the scientists at a workshop Tuesday that smaller drones are not yet sophisticated enough to merit privacy advocates’ concerns about spying. “If you’re flying [a small drone] 100 feet into the sky, you’re lucky to see a tree. Actually spying on people is fairly difficult and fairly expensive,” he said.

Those who can actually afford the most powerful drones are likely to be law enforcement agencies with grants from the federal government, or businesses hoping to turn a profit. That could mean a big expansion in the ability of police to gather evidence and detect crime. A 1989 Supreme Court ruling held that police can use images from manned aircraft to aid their investigations without first obtaining a warrant. In that case, a sheriff discovered a man was growing marijuana in a greenhouse by sending a helicopter to fly overhead at just 400 feet without first having to prove to a judge he had good reason to search his home.

Privacy advocates are concerned that drones will take police power to another level, since drones could in theory hover around an area continuously, surveying from the skies and reporting any suspicious activity.

Drones are tightly regulated right now by the Federal Aviation Association, which prohibits people from using them in any commercial endeavor and requires public institutions to apply for authorization to use them. (Hobbyists can fly small drones as long as they're within sight at all times and stay under 400 feet.)

But that’s all expected to change in 2015, when the agency is required by Congress to open up the skies to commercial uses of drones and attempt to integrate unmanned and manned aircraft. The agency estimates that nearly 10,000 new drones will be in flight in just the first few years after the commercial ban is lifted.

It’s unclear whether the FAA will delve into any of the privacy issues when it issues its regulations on unmanned aircraft. Ted Wierzbanowski, a retired Air Force colonel who chaired a committee that made recommendations to the FAA on how to regulate small drones, said he believes the FAA should focus on safety, not privacy, in its regulations. “Someone else in the government should have to worry about privacy issues. Who that is, I don’t know,” he said.

Amie Stepanovich, director of the Domestic Surveillance Project at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said her organization is petitioning the FAA to require a publicly accessible registry of drones—where they’re flying, who is flying them, and what sort of data they are collecting—so that concerned citizens can look up their home and see who might be watching it.

Congress, meanwhile, has shown some willingness to step in, with some Republican representatives working on a bill that would limit the police’s ability to use drones without first obtaining a warrant.

Another possibility is that much of the privacy battles will be fought at the local level, with each state developing standards for how law enforcement can use drones and how to mediate disputes among neighbors who use drones. Dozens of states have introduced legislation just this year to limit the ways in which police departments can use drones.
Oops, forgot link:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/p...111425343.html
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:07 AM   #2
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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"But that’s all expected to change in 2015, when the agency is required by Congress to open up the skies to commercial uses of drones and attempt to integrate unmanned and manned aircraft. The agency estimates that nearly 10,000 new drones will be in flight in just the first few years after the commercial ban is lifted."

Why? What drove this directive?

I see the ugly tracks of Homeland Security all over this. DHS is continuing to morph into federal police.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:20 AM   #3
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Businesses that don't have roofs over all their property are protected from other businesses flying over to gather information about their trade secrets and practices. (I just remember this from a law class years ago). I don't see why a person's home should be any different whether from another citizen or police.
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:43 AM   #4
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I’m surprised this didn’t get more play.
Anyway, looks like the FAA is going to loosen restrictions to allow more privately owned drones to fly around.

Quote:
Drones to enter public skies in 2015: Will it be safe?

Nothing stresses out drone enthusiasts more than reading in the news that some hobbyist decided to pilot a homemade, remote-controlled helicopter drone over Alcatraz or, as in a reported case in March, test out a three-foot-wide drone near a jetliner landing at John F. Kennedy airport.
“People like that make our lives more difficult,” said Brandon Stark, a drone researcher at the University of California, Merced.
These flights are illegal—people must keep drones within their line of sight, under 400 feet and away from airports. But that hasn’t stopped a few rogue hobbyists from breaking the rules, plus some specifics ones, such as the prohibition against flying lower than 2,000 feet above Alcatraz. It was these kinds of incidents that led the Federal Aviation Administration to greatly restrict small drone flights in the first place in 2007 and begin the process of coming up with still-uncompleted universal safety standards for unmanned aircraft that could be as stringent as those for commercial airliners.
“There were people doing really stupid stuff,” said Ted Wierzbanowski, a retired Air Force colonel and the chair of a committee tasked by the FAA to recommend safety regulations for small drones that weigh less 55 pounds. “The FAA saw all of this happening and how unsafe it was starting to become, and they had to shut it down.”
Small drones—or unmanned aerial systems, as their fans prefer to call them—have been tightly regulated by the FAA since 2007. Businesses cannot use a drone in any commercial endeavor, and researchers and public agencies must go through a rigorous application process to use unmanned aircraft for nonprofit reasons. Meanwhile, European countries have had laxer rules, leaving the U.S. drone industry to lament that it is losing out internationally.
This is all expected to change in late 2015, the deadline Congress gave the FAA to begin the “safe integration of civil unmanned aircraft systems into the national airspace system.” The agency will dip a toe into these waters sometime before then by opening up six test sites around the country where drones will fly alongside manned aircraft. (The test sites were supposed to be announced last year, but scientists and drone businessmen in 24 states are still waiting to hear if they will be chosen.)
The delay in FAA approval has made people wary of another drone incident. “If we have one accident, that’s going to kill the industry or slow it down even more than it’s being slowed down by the privacy thing,” Wierzbanowski said during a speech to drone researchers at an international conference in Atlanta on Thursday. (He was referring to criticisms that the use of drones for domestic surveillance could invade citizens’ privacy.)
In the meantime, scientists are working to develop systems that make drones safer and even in some cases override their human operators.
“Everybody has pretty much accepted that this is happening, and now [the question is], how do we make this happen safely?” said Wierzbanowski.
Scientists and regulators are encountering two main questions in developing the safety regulations: How to design drones so that they avoid running into manned aircraft, and how to make sure drones that lose contact with their ground control do not hurt people.
Wierzbanowski’s committee recommended that the operators of small, low-flying drones should be in charge of avoiding manned aircraft, instead of the other way around. In this fairly low-tech scenario, one person would be in charge of scanning the area for other aircraft and then telling the operator on the ground if he or she sees anything. The operator would then flip a switch that would force the drone to dive like a bird and get out of the way of the larger manned plane.
With larger drones that are flying out of the line of sight of the people who are controlling them from the ground, something more high-tech is needed. Air traffic controllers would track these drones just like manned aircraft, making sure their flight paths do not intersect with any other craft. But as a backup scenario, researchers are also working on “sense and avoid” systems on larger drones so that the machines can avoid other aircraft on their own. Many of these systems provide live video back to the pilot on the ground, who scans the image for any sign of trouble, but some are more sophisticated and autonomous.
Drones can also take the heart rate and other physiological data from their on-the-ground operators to gauge their stress levels. The system could be trained to take over from the human operator if it decides his or her stress levels are too high or that the operator is making irrational decisions.
Drones also need a safe way to deal with the possibility that the frequency it uses to communicate to its ground control could be interfered with, either intentionally (by hackers) or unintentionally (by an overloaded network). The FAA could require all drones to be programmed to automatically fly back to where they launched from if the signal is cut, to dive to the ground wherever they are when they lose the signal, or to fly around in a holding pattern until the signal is restored.
None of these safety regulations, however, would deal with the issues raised by people who buy cheap drones from a local store and then decide to misuse them. Some have suggested that commercially available drones should be fitted with altimeters that prevent them from flying above the legal 400 feet, but it’s unclear whether the FAA would endorse that. Altimeters could also be disabled.
“There’s no speed limits on our cars. We’re trusting that humans won’t fly 140 mph on our roads,” Merced said.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...095826982.html
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:57 AM   #5
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:59 AM   #6
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:03 AM   #7
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This is so cool. I am so excited for this to happen.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
"But that’s all expected to change in 2015, when the agency is required by Congress to open up the skies to commercial uses of drones and attempt to integrate unmanned and manned aircraft. The agency estimates that nearly 10,000 new drones will be in flight in just the first few years after the commercial ban is lifted."

Why? What drove this directive?

I see the ugly tracks of Homeland Security all over this. DHS is continuing to morph into federal police.
I wasn't even aware of the current restrictions and have no idea what the 10,000 predicted drones would be doing, but I know some insurance agents and farmers have scouted flooded crops with what qualifies as a drone. I can't find the link, but I also watched a video of one spraying the endrows of a field with what must have been fungicide prior to the regular duster hitting the field.

Real estate agents have been using them to make promotional material for a while now.

At least two outfits have been rumored to have used them to scout trophy big game animals out west for the big money tags. I believe one of the units was nearing the 6 figure mark. Several states are currently working to make this illegal before it gets more popular.

I only briefly skimmed the articles, but apparently all of the above appear to be an illegal use under current "commercial" regulations.

I'd think a drone would be better than a lot of these guys who are in an ultra light hovering their corn fields at pollination too. Those things crash all the time and are basically just a bubble with a motor.

They're going to have to deal with the privacy issues soon because the technology is here and has valid uses.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:48 AM   #9
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
I don’t start many topics but thought this would be an interesting one to see hashed out.
Personally, if the guy flying the drone over my property told me to get bent I’d grab my shotgun and blow his expensive little toy up.
Then they will just charge you with destruction of govt. property, fine you a trillion dollars, and have bubba ass rape you 3 times a week for 90-120 days.

The I didn't know whose property it was defense doesn't fly. no pun intended
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post
Then they will just charge you with destruction of govt. property, fine you a trillion dollars, and have bubba ass rape you 3 times a week for 90-120 days.

The I didn't know whose property it was defense doesn't fly. no pun intended
Where are you reading that it was a government drone?
The subject is about private individuals flying drones.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:47 AM   #12
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You can't stop the forward progress of technology. It's useless to even try.

Even if we try to extend the private use of drones it won't work. Same principle of banning guns, it won't stop someone from getting a gun.

As soon as the price point gets down, all farmers, real estate, big business, local, state and county government will have a drone. We will need air traffic control and flight plans so they dont crash and fall onto our heads.

As far as privacy concerns, get real. Do you think you really have privacy on the internet? You really think you can stop something in the air from seeing what you are doing when you can't even visually see the drone?

It's here now. It may creep you out but everyone is just going to have to get use to it. That genie is out of the bottle. Besides there our worse things to be afraid of in the next 5 years that are going to be available to the the public.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:30 AM   #13
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:36 AM   #14
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Actually, it IS NOT legal for him to fly in ceratin airspace.

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Old 06-01-2013, 10:53 AM   #15
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What, exactly, is the difference between a drone and a remote control helicopter which you can get at Target?
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