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Old 06-10-2013, 08:33 AM  
mikey23545 mikey23545 is online now
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Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

The NSA leaker has come forward in a June 9 interview on The Guardian, the British media outlet that broke the story of the NSA acquisition of phone records and access to online activity. Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA, has come forward to identify himself as the NSA whistleblower being sought in the release of NSA files. He said he is not hiding because he has not done anything wrong.

Snowden is currently an employee of a defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, and he has previously worked for various others. This has put him inside the National Security Agency for the last four years.

The NSA leaker, aware that he would be facing the ire of the U.S. government, made the choice to sacrifice his comfortable life in Hawaii and $200,000 salary to make the public aware of the depth of the privacy infringements that he claims exist. He says he doesn't want to live in a society like that.

The NSA leaker was a former CIA tech assistant

"The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to," he said.

You can view Edward Snowden's video interview here.: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...r-surveillance

The technology specialist is "holed up" in a motel in Hong Kong, basically waiting for the other shoe to drop.

He wrote a note that went with the second set of documents, according to The Guardian:

"I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

The head of NSA, James Clapper, has reported the leaks of the NSA documents as a crime. You can read about that here.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:26 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I think she called me a paleo-something one time. Or maybe it was Mesozoic or Jurassic, I can't remember.
Dude you are totally Cretaceous and you know it!
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:30 PM   #197
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Did you say something?
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:31 PM   #198
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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I never called cosmos a paleo. I'm the paleo.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:31 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not fully up to speed on the disclosures, but my understanding is that that's how it already works. First the NSA gets court approval to analyze the data for connections to a known/suspected foreign terrorist and then they go back to the courts for further approval before they can focus their attention on a domestic node.

I don't know that the data itself is anonymized, but based on what I've heard, the focus of the government under this program is on anonymous hunks of data until they get at least two court approvals.

I can understand that it's troubling to collect all the data initially and to rely on the honor system and oversight from courts and Congress to insure that the NSA doesn't look at names without approval. Maybe there's a way to anonymize the data without losing the ability to get to that identifier data quickly in the event that you have a valid and constitutionally justified reason to go after it, but I'm not sure. If there is, I'm for it.
The current data retrieval/interception is only "anonymous" in that it is raw data. So basically, it's not anonymous at all it simply isn't pre-sorted into a bin marked "Pat's data." There absolutely is an easy way to make anonymization an automatic part of the collection process. My feeling is that no one has bothered because no one was up in arms about this. Hopefully this will change that.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:31 PM   #200
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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That's easy to say when you sit in freedom protected at least in part through the secrets kept by our government. When the risk becomes real, it might not be so easy as you'll realize then that "risk" means risk to lose it all, including both freedom and life.
We're not sitting in freedom anymore. Too many have been lost since 9/11 and many were lost before then. We currently live in a fascism and apparently it's much worse than we thought. And it looks like we're never going to get them back either. Unless we start supporting whistleblowers. It's no wonder polls have consistently shown a large majority are not happy with the direction of the country including under Bush. It's no wonder less and less feel our govt no longer represents us.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:32 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
We currently live in a fascism.
For someone so attached to labels, you'd think that you might actually have a clue as to their definitions.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #202
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I heard some funny noises...like grunts. That's what a pile-on does. Says all about those involved.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #203
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I heard some funny noises...like grunts. That's what a pile-on does. Says all about those involved.
Sounds like someone speaking from experience. TMI, DPBEP.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:42 PM   #204
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:46 PM   #205
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Between this and the IRS one has to really wonder, if all this spying is really for terrorism.
The government says so. I trust them.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I think you do. Senator Rand Paul, former Rep Ron Paul and Judge Napolitano and many more have the same understanding.

I mean it's not like Muslim jihadists are killing us for OUR freedom: for our women to dress without a scarf, veil or burka, or because they think our society is libertine and pagan, our free press ( what a joke they've become) or our Bill of Rights, which we're losing. They're doing it because of our policies in their lands. Very easy to resolve and without abandoning Israel.
Actually, our freedoms and our way of life are a primary motivator for Islamist jihad. It's that and the fear that our libertine/pagan society will spread to their world. Here's a description of the thinking of Sayyid Qutb, the intellectual founding father of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda and Egypt's muslim brotherhood:

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One of the leading theoreticians of Islamic fundamentalism was the Egyptian thinker, Sayyid Qutb, who has been called "the brains behind bin Laden." Like the terrorists who destroyed the World Trade Center, Qutb was a man who lived in the West and knew its ways. After studying in America, he wrote a book called "The America That I Saw" in which he argued that his familiarity with the United States was his basis for rejecting it.

Qutb, who died in 1966, wrote that he was shocked by the rampant prejudice of Americans, especially toward Arabs and Muslims. He professed outrage at the materialism and sexual promiscuity of American culture.

In his later writings, Qutb alleged that America used to be Christian; now, it is pagan. The Muslim believer, he wrote, has no reason to envy or emulate the ways of America; rather, true Muslims should feel contempt for those ways.

How in Qutb's view did America reach its sorry state? One problem, Qutb said, is that American and indeed Western institutions are fundamentally atheist, based on a clear rejection of divine authority.

Democracy and capitalism are in Qutb's view atheistic ideas. When democrats say that sovereignty flows from the people, this means that the people, not God, are the rulers. So democracy is a form of idol worship. So, too, Qutb insisted that capitalism, which is based on the notion that the market and not God is the best arbitrator of value, is a form of idolatry.

A second problem, Qutb wrote, is that the core principle of America is liberty -- the right to determine one's own destiny. This, he argued, is a highly defective principle because liberty can be used well or liberty can be used badly.


Given what Immanuel Kant called "the warped timber of humanity," given the human propensity for selfishness and vice, Qutb argued that freedom will often be used badly.

For evidence of this, he said, just look at what goes on in America. Qutb pointed to divorce, family breakdown, homosexuality, promiscuity and the triviality and vulgarity of American popular culture as proof that human beings cannot be expected to use freedom except to gratify their basest impulses. Indeed, Qutb sternly charged that America is materially prosperous but morally rotten.

Qutb's alternative to America and the West is Islam, which in his book "Social Justice in Islam" he terms "an unparalleled revolution in human thinking" that provides the only solution to "this unhappy, perplexed and weary world."
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #207
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Exactly. I'm not ok with it, but yelling that it's a violation of the 4th is wrong and does nothing to further my goals. If we stick to reality and keep focused on why this is a very real problem, maybe, just maybe we can get some legitimate changes made.
I think we are a lot closer on this issue than this discourse has demonstrated. It is not a 4th Amendment violation according to the interpretation by the courts. I believe that decision was a stunning misinterpretation of the amendment, and it does not follow the spirit of the law. It seems pretty obvious to me what the founding fathers intended with the 4th, and the laws we have now aren't it.

Since the 4th amendment has already been virtually gutted, we may need to pursue other avenues. However, in my opinion it would be better to return to 4th Amendment and review the previous rulings on it, rather than create new laws for every specific circumstance or new technology.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:52 PM   #208
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:53 PM   #209
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Great Patty. Now here comes the "we don't have a democracy" banality.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:55 PM   #210
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Elect a different Congressman. Preferably, a Republican.
What happens when the people in power use the IRS to crush their political opposition and the NSA to spy on citizens who seek to remove them from power?...

Oh, wait...

I'm really amazed at your reaction to all this...I always thought your loyalties were to your country, not to the Republican Party...
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