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Old 06-10-2013, 08:33 AM  
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
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Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

The NSA leaker has come forward in a June 9 interview on The Guardian, the British media outlet that broke the story of the NSA acquisition of phone records and access to online activity. Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA, has come forward to identify himself as the NSA whistleblower being sought in the release of NSA files. He said he is not hiding because he has not done anything wrong.

Snowden is currently an employee of a defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, and he has previously worked for various others. This has put him inside the National Security Agency for the last four years.

The NSA leaker, aware that he would be facing the ire of the U.S. government, made the choice to sacrifice his comfortable life in Hawaii and $200,000 salary to make the public aware of the depth of the privacy infringements that he claims exist. He says he doesn't want to live in a society like that.

The NSA leaker was a former CIA tech assistant

"The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to," he said.

You can view Edward Snowden's video interview here.: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...r-surveillance

The technology specialist is "holed up" in a motel in Hong Kong, basically waiting for the other shoe to drop.

He wrote a note that went with the second set of documents, according to The Guardian:

"I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

The head of NSA, James Clapper, has reported the leaks of the NSA documents as a crime. You can read about that here.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:00 PM   #211
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Actually, our freedoms and our way of life are a primary motivator for Islamist jihad.
I think the work of Robert Pape and even Michael Scheuer are more legit instead of just making an assumption and coining it into a sound-bite to rally the masses. It's just not a reason people historically kill others for....except perhaps communists. Plus those two have backed up their claims much better. Plus bin Laden says he'd destroy our economy dragging us into different countries. It's working too. Time for another approach.

I really don't want to go for another long round of arguing on this as it's been done repeatedly. We disgree.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:08 PM   #212
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I saw his interview, or large parts of it. Well spoken and smart. I enjoyed what he said and why he said he did it.

I don't fully trust his motivates yet and well let it play out until I fully decide.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:11 PM   #213
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EDWARD SNOWDEN IS NO HERO
POSTED BY JEFFREY TOOBIN

Edward Snowden, a twenty-nine-year-old former C.I.A. employee and current government contractor, has leaked news of National Security Agency programs that collect vast amounts of information about the telephone calls made by millions of Americans, as well as e-mails and other files of foreign targets and their American connections. For this, some, including my colleague John Cassidy, are hailing him as a hero and a whistle-blower. He is neither. He is, rather, a grandiose narcissist who deserves to be in prison.

Snowden provided information to the Washington Post and the Guardian, which also posted a video interview with him. In it, he describes himself as appalled by the government he served:
Quote:
The N.S.A. has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your e-mails or your wife’s phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your e-mails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.

I don’t want to live in a society that does these sort of things… I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under.
What, one wonders, did Snowden think the N.S.A. did? Any marginally attentive citizen, much less N.S.A. employee or contractor, knows that the entire mission of the agency is to intercept electronic communications. Perhaps he thought that the N.S.A. operated only outside the United States; in that case, he hadn’t been paying very close attention. In any event, Snowden decided that he does not “want to live in a society” that intercepts private communications. His latter-day conversion is dubious.

And what of his decision to leak the documents? Doing so was, as he more or less acknowledges, a crime. Any government employee or contractor is warned repeatedly that the unauthorized disclosure of classified information is a crime. But Snowden, apparently, was answering to a higher calling. “When you see everything you realize that some of these things are abusive,” he said. “The awareness of wrongdoing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up. It was a natural process.” These were legally authorized programs; in the case of Verizon Business’s phone records, Snowden certainly knew this, because he leaked the very court order that approved the continuation of the project. So he wasn’t blowing the whistle on anything illegal; he was exposing something that failed to meet his own standards of propriety. The question, of course, is whether the government can function when all of its employees (and contractors) can take it upon themselves to sabotage the programs they don’t like. That’s what Snowden has done.

What makes leak cases difficult is that some leaking—some interaction between reporters and sources who have access to classified information—is normal, even indispensable, in a society with a free press. It’s not easy to draw the line between those kinds of healthy encounters and the wholesale, reckless dumping of classified information by the likes of Snowden or Bradley Manning. Indeed, Snowden was so irresponsible in what he gave the Guardian and the Post that even these institutions thought some of it should not be disseminated to the public. The Post decided to publish only four of the forty-one slides that Snowden provided. Its exercise of judgment suggests the absence of Snowden’s.

Snowden fled to Hong Kong when he knew publication of his leaks was imminent. In his interview, he said he went there because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent.” This may be true, in some limited way, but the overriding fact is that Hong Kong is part of China—which is, as Snowden knows, a stalwart adversary of the United States in intelligence matters. (Evan Osnos has more on that.) Snowden is now at the mercy of the Chinese leaders who run Hong Kong. As a result, all of Snowden’s secrets may wind up in the hands of the Chinese government—which has no commitment at all to free speech or the right to political dissent. And that makes Snowden a hero?

The American government, and its democracy, are flawed institutions. But our system offers legal options to disgruntled government employees and contractors. They can take advantage of federal whistle-blower laws; they can bring their complaints to Congress; they can try to protest within the institutions where they work. But Snowden did none of this. Instead, in an act that speaks more to his ego than his conscience, he threw the secrets he knew up in the air—and trusted, somehow, that good would come of it. We all now have to hope that he’s right.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...s-no-hero.html
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:19 PM   #214
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I found this to be a very interesting take from the article.

Quote:
As a result, all of Snowden’s secrets may wind up in the hands of the Chinese government—which has no commitment at all to free speech or the right to political dissent. And that makes Snowden a hero?
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:23 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
This may be true, in some limited way, but the overriding fact is that Hong Kong is part of China—which is, as Snowden knows, a stalwart adversary of the United States in intelligence matters. (Evan Osnos has more on that.) Snowden is now at the mercy of the Chinese leaders who run Hong Kong. As a result, all of Snowden’s secrets may wind up in the hands of the Chinese government—which has no commitment at all to free speech or the right to political dissent.
Yep.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:23 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I found this to be a very interesting take from the article.


Good grief, if they hadn't been collecting so much un-needed private information, nothing would ever get to the Chinese govt to be concerned about.
This opinion piece looks more like slander. The shills for the police-state are coming out.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:27 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I found this to be a very interesting take from the article.
There are two things that I think are going to happen:

Either the U.S. will get him, secretly the government will want so there isn't a media circus bringing him back, and he'll be tried in court. (I still have confidence he won't be dragged around back and shot)

Or, if everything he says is true and he knows lots of secret cool information, any number of governments will offer him a deal. Information in exchange for protection and the ability to disappear. It might be China. It might not. Any number of nations might be willing to pay a price for him. If, everything he says is true.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #218
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In the meantime, presidents intentionally leak reports for their own purposes.That's okay though.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #219
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I've never seen anyone so obsessed with labels. You seem to truly love all the different categories on the political spectrum and have made a hobby of classifying every issue and person under its appropriate sub-sub-sub category. I think I've seen you list maybe 7 different types of conservatives and your economic systems must be in the teens.

I think that on any particular issue, you don't actually consider its merits or how reasonable it may or may not be. Instead, you first analyze into which subcategory you can shove it into. Then you decide if it is acceptable.
No. Her methodology is much simplier. If Ron Paul likes it, BEP is for it. If lewrockwell.com is for it, BEP is for it. Any rationale is either parroted from those sources or is a made up rationalization after the fact.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:35 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Good grief, if they hadn't been collecting so much un-needed private information, nothing would ever get to the Chinese govt to be concerned about.
This opinion piece looks more like slander. The shills for the police-state are coming out.
Completely besides the point but that is okay.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:36 PM   #221
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Doing some checking on this Jeffrey Toobin: Apparently he thinks basic rights are selective depending on his own whims as a left-liberal and others on the left. Toobin is a longtime friend of Supreme Court justice Elena Kagan, thinks Justice Roberts is "very, very conservative" and that Justice Thomas is "highly unusual and extreme"; has even called him "a nut." People like Toobin are too close to govt, coercian, and are a threat to liberty.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:38 PM   #222
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Completely besides the point but that is okay.
No it's not. It shows your possible charge as silly and also based on innuendo. Just because someone points that out in a post doesn't make it besides the point. It is criticizing the point. Hence, disagreement with that claim.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:40 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No it's not. It shows your charge as silly and also based on innuendo. Just because someone points that out in a post doesn't make it besides the point. It is criticizing the point. Hence, disagreement with that claim.
I made no claim.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:40 PM   #224
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No. Her methodology is much simplier. If Ron Paul likes it, BEP is for it. If lewrockwell.com is for it, BEP is for it. Any rationale is either parroted from those sources or is a made up rationalization after the fact.
Nope. If you actually read the name of those who post on Lew Rockwell, you'd see that it's not always Lew Rockwell himself that I use. I take what I already agree with from his site, eventhough I am not a libertarian. I disagree with Lew enough at times, but you wouldn't see that because I use what I agree with and those are the main issues of this time. I like Ron Paul because he already aligns with my views not the other way around. In our current political climate, aka the growth of the national security state which I disagreed with from day one, the libertarians are one of the few siding against the state. It's unfortunate, but true. Conservatives, many of them, have abandoned their own philosophy of limited govt. I am just not sure Donger was one from the beginning. More like a Euro-con, which worships state power more.

Snowden happens to be a libertarian as well.

Now, do you have something to contribute or not?
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:44 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I made no claim.
Oh well, excuse me, you quoted one.
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