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Old 06-10-2013, 08:33 AM  
mikey23545 mikey23545 is online now
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Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

The NSA leaker has come forward in a June 9 interview on The Guardian, the British media outlet that broke the story of the NSA acquisition of phone records and access to online activity. Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA, has come forward to identify himself as the NSA whistleblower being sought in the release of NSA files. He said he is not hiding because he has not done anything wrong.

Snowden is currently an employee of a defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, and he has previously worked for various others. This has put him inside the National Security Agency for the last four years.

The NSA leaker, aware that he would be facing the ire of the U.S. government, made the choice to sacrifice his comfortable life in Hawaii and $200,000 salary to make the public aware of the depth of the privacy infringements that he claims exist. He says he doesn't want to live in a society like that.

The NSA leaker was a former CIA tech assistant

"The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to," he said.

You can view Edward Snowden's video interview here.: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...r-surveillance

The technology specialist is "holed up" in a motel in Hong Kong, basically waiting for the other shoe to drop.

He wrote a note that went with the second set of documents, according to The Guardian:

"I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

The head of NSA, James Clapper, has reported the leaks of the NSA documents as a crime. You can read about that here.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:44 PM   #226
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Hong Kong does have a extradition treaty with the U.S.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/edward...1#.UbZIt_nqlBk
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:54 PM   #227
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Hong Kong does have a extradition treaty with the U.S.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/edward...1#.UbZIt_nqlBk
There's always the Vatican. They don't have one.

Hmmm per wiki China doesn't have one either. Isn't Hong Kong now China?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradi...atic_relations
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:57 PM   #228
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Not that clear-cut per the BBC for Hong King

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22837599
Hurdles to extradition
The US consulate in Hong Kong, 10 June 2013 Hong Kong and the US have had an extradition treaty in place for over 15 years

However, the extradition process can be a long and complicated one in sensitive cases like this, Tim Parker, an immigration lawyer based in Hong Kong, told the BBC.

"There are a number of hurdles that could come up for the extraditing authority, to the advantage of Snowden," he said.

"There is a bar under Hong Kong's extradition law... to extradition for an offence that is of a political character, [where] the prosecution is thought not just to be the application of the criminal law, but to crush that person or to crush their dissent," Mr Parker said.

Another potential hurdle would be any intervention from Beijing, which could block an extradition if it raised questions "going to their national security, foreign affairs, or defence", Mr Parker says.

A handover could also be halted if Mr Snowden was believed to be in danger of receiving inhumane treatment in the US, Mr Parker added.

"If Mr Snowden is at risk of being detained under the sort of conditions that Bradley Manning has reportedly been detained, which the UN special rapporteurs have said amounted to cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment... then Hong Kong would not be allowed under its law, and could not extradite him to the US."

A further consideration is what visa Mr Snowden used to enter Hong Kong. If his visa is due to expire soon, a formal extradition request may not be needed.

However, it would not be "legally possible" under Hong Kong law for Mr Snowden to be forcibly taken to Beijing, Mr Parker says.

"That would be a serious breach of the autonomy under Hong Kong's One Country Two Systems arrangement. There aren't really any known cases of that having been done off the books [either]," he says.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #229
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22837599
Hurdles to extradition
The US consulate in Hong Kong, 10 June 2013 Hong Kong and the US have had an extradition treaty in place for over 15 years

However, the extradition process can be a long and complicated one in sensitive cases like this, Tim Parker, an immigration lawyer based in Hong Kong, told the BBC.

"There are a number of hurdles that could come up for the extraditing authority, to the advantage of Snowden," he said.

"There is a bar under Hong Kong's extradition law... to extradition for an offence that is of a political character, [where] the prosecution is thought not just to be the application of the criminal law, but to crush that person or to crush their dissent," Mr Parker said.

Another potential hurdle would be any intervention from Beijing, which could block an extradition if it raised questions "going to their national security, foreign affairs, or defence", Mr Parker says.

A handover could also be halted if Mr Snowden was believed to be in danger of receiving inhumane treatment in the US, Mr Parker added.

"If Mr Snowden is at risk of being detained under the sort of conditions that Bradley Manning has reportedly been detained, which the UN special rapporteurs have said amounted to cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment... then Hong Kong would not be allowed under its law, and could not extradite him to the US."

A further consideration is what visa Mr Snowden used to enter Hong Kong. If his visa is due to expire soon, a formal extradition request may not be needed.

However, it would not be "legally possible" under Hong Kong law for Mr Snowden to be forcibly taken to Beijing, Mr Parker says.

"That would be a serious breach of the autonomy under Hong Kong's One Country Two Systems arrangement. There aren't really any known cases of that having been done off the books [either]," he says.
Just enough time for some nation to help him "disappear".

I really am interested in seeing what happens to this guy.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:10 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Oh well, excuse me, you quoted one.
I didn't quote a claim either. The author said his secrets may end up with the Chinese government. That is merely a possibility that he pointed out that I found interesting. Snowden wants to expose something that he feels is a wrongdoing on the American people. But he has fled somewhere that would probably love to have all of the information he can provide just as much as us. Again, I find that to be interesting to think about.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:14 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I didn't quote a claim either. The author said his secrets may end up with the Chinese government. That is merely a possibility that he pointed out that I found interesting. Snowden wants to expose something that he feels is a wrongdoing on the American people. But he has fled somewhere that would probably love to have all of the information he can provide just as much as us. Again, I find that to be interesting to think about.
I edited by adding the adjective "possible." Nevertheless, my post still holds for it whether it is possible or a fact.

I'll even go earlier on the chain of events: I feel the WoT is an excuse, a taking advantage of a crisis, to do what some in our govt want to do anyway. I feel terrorism would be much better handled, by removing our military bases from their lands instead of expanding it. Meanwhile, we are losing our way of life and liberties, so I do not see it as a just war. It's an excuse to build a police state.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:24 PM   #232
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:32 PM   #233
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I think the work of Robert Pape and even Michael Scheuer are more legit instead of just making an assumption and coining it into a sound-bite to rally the masses. It's just not a reason people historically kill others for....except perhaps communists. Plus those two have backed up their claims much better. Plus bin Laden says he'd destroy our economy dragging us into different countries. It's working too. Time for another approach.

I really don't want to go for another long round of arguing on this as it's been done repeatedly. We disgree.
I'm fine with agreeing to disagree on this. I'll just say that I think motivations you recognize (which, iirc, are such things as foreign militaries on Islamic soil, Iraq, and drone strikes) are more important for the jihadist foot soldiers, but the motivations I'm citing become more relevant for the jihadist thought leaders.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:44 PM   #234
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Definately a patriot. I would put Bradley Manning in that category as well.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:50 PM   #235
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Definately a patriot. I would put Bradley Manning in that category as well.
I see him as a patriot myself for the sheer fact that he put his own life and freedom at risk to expose wrongdoing by the state.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:17 PM   #236
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I love a diLorenzo take on this:

Kraut, the former speechwriter for Mondale posing as a Conservative on FOX News!
Krauthammer "Hearts" the NSA (Short for "Nazi") Police State
After reporting on how the government's gargantuan spy-on-American-citizens bureaucracy is many orders of magnitude bigger than anything Hitler's SS or Stalin's KGB could have imagined, Faux News turned tonight to its "panel of experts" to tell us what we should think about all of this.

The Official Word from Charles Krauthammer is: Nothing to see here folks, move along. "There has been no abuse," he said, therefore we should all just shaaaaduppp about it.

Then there was Juan Williams arguing that "Congress knew about this," therefore we should all just shaaaaduppp. Nothing to see here. If Congress knows about it, says Juan, then of course it must all be moral and just.

"It's legal, and it's working" the third Faux News talking head informs us to end the show. Of course it is. That's what the government says, and we all know that politicians never, ever, lie. [Or their minions in the major media!]
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:02 PM   #237
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I saw his interview, or large parts of it. Well spoken and smart. I enjoyed what he said and why he said he did it.

I don't fully trust his motivates yet and well let it play out until I fully decide.
The reasons he gave for selecting Hong Kong to reveal his identity would indicate otherwise. Pretty naive. Might have well have given the interview from the mall in DC for all the protection Hong Kong will give him.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:39 PM   #238
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Just to let people know just how much of a rubberstamp the FISA court is, it only rejected .03% of requests.

That is astronomically small.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:52 PM   #239
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some of you tinfoilers claiming Snowden could be swooped up by the RED CHINESE GUBMINT

that is ****ing hilarious. not even reality folks.

Nothing will come of this. Not one thing. Snowden's "worst case scenario" will come to pass. the media won't pick up any of this, the gov't won't give this traction either.

Snowden will get more print in this thread than anywhere else.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:56 PM   #240
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Just to let people know just how much of a rubberstamp the FISA court is, it only rejected .03% of requests.

That is astronomically small.
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