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Old 06-10-2013, 08:33 AM  
mikey23545 mikey23545 is online now
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Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

The NSA leaker has come forward in a June 9 interview on The Guardian, the British media outlet that broke the story of the NSA acquisition of phone records and access to online activity. Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA, has come forward to identify himself as the NSA whistleblower being sought in the release of NSA files. He said he is not hiding because he has not done anything wrong.

Snowden is currently an employee of a defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, and he has previously worked for various others. This has put him inside the National Security Agency for the last four years.

The NSA leaker, aware that he would be facing the ire of the U.S. government, made the choice to sacrifice his comfortable life in Hawaii and $200,000 salary to make the public aware of the depth of the privacy infringements that he claims exist. He says he doesn't want to live in a society like that.

The NSA leaker was a former CIA tech assistant

"The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to," he said.

You can view Edward Snowden's video interview here.: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...r-surveillance

The technology specialist is "holed up" in a motel in Hong Kong, basically waiting for the other shoe to drop.

He wrote a note that went with the second set of documents, according to The Guardian:

"I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

The head of NSA, James Clapper, has reported the leaks of the NSA documents as a crime. You can read about that here.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:19 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
That is just the paper of Walter Duranty and Jayson Blair parroting what the head of the NSA says. That is not evidence of anything. Reason who took a more in depth look, says nope. Regular police work actually identified the suspects. The NSA was a tool but one that was not needed to actually make the case.
Link?

BTW, when a newspaper faithfully prints testimony from a news maker, that's called reporting, not parroting. I was clear about the fact that I was talking about what the head of the NSA said. If you're saying the head of the NSA lied, let's see your evidence.

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A rejection rate of 0.03%. I am sorry but no, no matter how the process goes there should be a rejection rate higher then 0.03%. The problem is that these are secret. We don't know how these are resolved. We don't know the extent of the warrants. There is no oversight just a rubber stamp court to make it "legal".
You want rejections for the sake of rejections? Don't be ridiculous. That's the kind of analysis we get from the EEOC in discriminatory hiring investigations.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:33 PM   #482
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:42 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Link?

BTW, when a newspaper faithfully prints testimony from a news maker, that's called reporting, not parroting. I was clear about the fact that I was talking about what the head of the NSA said. If you're saying the head of the NSA lied, let's see your evidence.
OK, I've found the Reason article I think you're talking about. It's not really disputing that the information obtained through this program was critical in the two cases I mentioned. Instead, it's suggesting that the same information could have been obtained if the process had been different. Instead of the NSA building a database from which it could query information after obtaining a warrant, Reason's Jacob Sullum is saying that they could have obtained a warrant and then requested/demanded records from all of the relevant phone companies. The difference between the two is obviously timeliness and complexity. Both approaches require a warrant.

I can understand why you might prefer the slower, more complicated approach (where private business holds the raw data instead of the government), but it can't be denied that the slower, more complicated approach will cause plots to be missed at the margin. Whether any of the plots thus far encountered lie at that margin or not is unclear.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:57 PM   #484
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of course. This isn't a Dem/R issue.The trust issue is at the core. Dems trust Obama to not have rampant abuse of the system. R's don't trust Obama.
You are not thinking this through. If you know, that means our enemies know. Transpency to the public is not an option. In this case they have been reporting to Congress and the courts for 10+ years. Thats the only checks and balances you can have in these situations.
Does the # matter? IMHO tracking who is talking to terrorists and who is emailing or visiting terrorists websites, is a trade off. You don't want that trade off, thats a legitimate opinion. But, when they blow up times square or the Super Bowl don't complain about not keeping the country safe.
I have thought this through. I understand why it is being done and don't have a problem with it being used in this application.

Maybe I'm just getting old but archiving data that has the possibility of being mined later for any reason should be something we all should know about. So your answer to that is well they are only looking for links to terrorists. My reply is sure, but what's next, say 10-20 years down the road? Should it be used to track people buying an ounce of pot? Under the current scenario it could happen and the general public wouldn't know about it because it is all made legal by a very few group of people.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:16 PM   #485
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You would think. But haven't you heard? We're the bad guys now, according to the cool kids.
I was no supporter of Bush but who's ever watch this happened on is bad. The dude is a straight up traitor. For once I think Cheney is right. This all started under Bush and I don't care. IF they are just gathering records which the phone companies already have I still don't give a shit.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:21 PM   #486
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I was no supporter of Bush but who's ever watch this happened on is bad. The dude is a straight up traitor. For once I think Cheney is right. This all started under Bush and I don't care. IF they are just gathering records which the phone companies already have I still don't give a shit.
I already knew you believed this. I've seen you across the room at our NWO meetups.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:22 PM   #487
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Maybe I'm just getting old but archiving data that has the possibility of being mined later for any reason should be something we all should know about. So your answer to that is well they are only looking for links to terrorists. My reply is sure, but what's next, say 10-20 years down the road? Should it be used to track people buying an ounce of pot? Under the current scenario it could happen and the general public wouldn't know about it because it is all made legal by a very few group of people.
Data mining is here to stay. Secret or not. The NSA gave the code away to do this on the cheap. I told you guys this was going to change tech and our lives. It's just starting to be used by businesses.

Don't you remember the uproar when Target sent out baby catalogs to expectant mothers? Problem was, a lot of them had not even told their families. Target data mined the information.

You give me a birth date and current zip code I can get your SSN# using publicly available information and tools. That genie is out of the bottle. It can't go back in. It's the new world we live in now.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:16 PM   #488
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:16 PM   #489
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:19 PM   #490
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How so? He is not a noble servant of the truth. Going to China and then to Russia is not the acts of a righteous man.
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ohhh all he did was get on an airplane.

Are you really this stupid or blind?
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:21 PM   #491
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OK, I've found the Reason article. I think you're talking about. It's not really disputing that the information obtained through this program was critical in the two cases I mentioned. Instead, it's suggesting that the same information could have been obtained if the process had been different. Instead of the NSA building a database from which it could query information after obtaining a warrant, Reason's Jacob Sullum is saying that they could have obtained a warrant and then requested/demanded records from all of the relevant phone companies. The difference between the two is obviously timeliness and complexity. Both approaches require a warrant.

I can understand why you might prefer the slower, more complicated approach (where private business holds the raw data instead of the government), but it can't be denied that the slower, more complicated approach will cause plots to be missed at the margin. Whether any of the plots thus far encountered lie at that margin or not is unclear.
Considering they released these cases, it is probably the best they got. So, they expect us to let them have our data for what they say is security yet they best cases they have show that regular old getting a warrant is just as good. We have at least one case where they totally dropped the ball even with getting a tip from the Russians.

So its job can be done without collecting massive amounts of information on citizens who committed no crime and are not even suspects in a crime. They also incompetent enough that even with a tip, they couldn't put the pieces together to stop the Boston bombers. Not to mention the director of the NSA flat out lied to Congress.

So why do you defend something that violates your rights, the massive amounts of data aren't needed for it to do its job, and is staffed by incompetents and liars?
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:32 PM   #492
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can somebody explain this shit to me?

he exposed the govt was data mining the US public,
that was exposed during the bush admin in 06

as far as I go he gave away no secrets other than
yeah the NSA reads your emails
how does that affect national security?
any major espionage enemies had to know this
only the US public didn't
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:40 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Considering they released these cases, it is probably the best they got. So, they expect us to let them have our data for what they say is security yet they best cases they have show that regular old getting a warrant is just as good. We have at least one case where they totally dropped the ball even with getting a tip from the Russians.

So its job can be done without collecting massive amounts of information on citizens who committed no crime and are not even suspects in a crime. They also incompetent enough that even with a tip, they couldn't put the pieces together to stop the Boston bombers. Not to mention the director of the NSA flat out lied to Congress.

So why do you defend something that violates your rights, the massive amounts of data aren't needed for it to do its job, and is staffed by incompetents and liars?
I don't think there's a good reason to jump to the conclusion that they're the best they've got. There's at least as much reason to believe that they were picked because they were disclosures that minimized the damage to our security interests.

A regular old warrant isn't just as good. It doesn't take an example to show that. I explained why it's not as good in my previous post.

Examples of alleged incompetence at connecting dots aren't really relevant to whether or not we try to connect dots. If anything, it demonstrates that the more conventional approaches you're advocating lead to failure in some cases.

What was this lie that the NSA Director told?

I won't concede that the NSA is staffed by incompetents and liars. I don't think you have any real evidence that that is the case. I will agree that like all organizations staffed by people, there will be mistakes and I'll also agree that there's good reason to be skeptical of government collecting a bunch of data with the promise that it will never be misused. I don't think it's violation of anyone's rights based on what we know so far though.
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:01 PM   #494
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patteeu:

I hope you will take the time to read the links that I provided at the end of this post. NSA secret surveillance program did not play a role in intercepting Najibullah Zazi's plot to bomb New York's subway system. However, you might want to thank Britain for foiling a terrorist attack on US soil.

In the court documents, Zazi traveled to Pakistan to train with Al Qaeda. Britain's Secret Intelligence Service intercepted an email from an Al Qaeda member and through their police work, arrested several suspected terrorists in the U.K. A large amount of equipment was seized, including computers and email messages. The plot to bomb New York's subway system was uncovered on a computer April 2009.

Britain's Counterterrorism Security notified Homeland Security of Zazi's plot. In fact, the Obama administration appears to have deliberately misled the public.


Britain's Secret Intelligence Service "Operation Pathway" (fast Google or Google a better article about "Operation Pathway"):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8688586.stm


U.K Court Appeal no: SC/77/80/81/82/83/09:
http://www.siac.tribunals.gov.uk/Doc...enJudgment.pdf
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:10 PM   #495
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