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Old 06-10-2013, 09:33 AM  
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Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

Eric Snowden: Greatest American Hero Ever?

The NSA leaker has come forward in a June 9 interview on The Guardian, the British media outlet that broke the story of the NSA acquisition of phone records and access to online activity. Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA, has come forward to identify himself as the NSA whistleblower being sought in the release of NSA files. He said he is not hiding because he has not done anything wrong.

Snowden is currently an employee of a defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, and he has previously worked for various others. This has put him inside the National Security Agency for the last four years.

The NSA leaker, aware that he would be facing the ire of the U.S. government, made the choice to sacrifice his comfortable life in Hawaii and $200,000 salary to make the public aware of the depth of the privacy infringements that he claims exist. He says he doesn't want to live in a society like that.

The NSA leaker was a former CIA tech assistant

"The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to," he said.

You can view Edward Snowden's video interview here.: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...r-surveillance

The technology specialist is "holed up" in a motel in Hong Kong, basically waiting for the other shoe to drop.

He wrote a note that went with the second set of documents, according to The Guardian:

"I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

The head of NSA, James Clapper, has reported the leaks of the NSA documents as a crime. You can read about that here.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:24 PM   #586
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Right. You're the kind of person I was talking about when I mentioned that we'd hear a lot of unsubstantiated speculation. Keep on keepin' on.
I tend to not trust liars until I have ample proof that they are not lying.

Also, the NSA has no problem simply lying to the FISA court.

The fact that congress isn't bringing everybody involved in this program for impeachment is simply damning about how much your normal politician cares about your rights.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:36 AM   #587
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
I tend to not trust liars until I have ample proof that they are not lying.

Also, the NSA has no problem simply lying to the FISA court.
No one said you should trust liars.

The example you note is a case of internal checks and balances working to reign the NSA in when it gets out of bounds and to prevent abuse.

If the NSA was intentionally lying to the court, why didn't they just continue to do so instead of fessing up?

The vast majority of the collection efforts being reviewed in this case (pdf) were approved by the court. The difficulties occurred in one small subset of internet interceptions that the NSA was capturing. Those interceptions were individual transactions of information containing multiple communications connected to a single user. Within those multiple communications, at least one of them involved a non-American person. The NSA didn't have the technical means to identify in advance whether any of those bundled messages were outside the scope of their authorization or to parse and collect only the messages within the authorization. Instead, they designed a process for identifying unauthorized acquisitions as the data was queried and if completely inappropriate the record was purged from the database. If a part of the transaction involved a target person, then the transaction was retained, but analysts were not allowed to disseminate non-authorized communications except under very strict limitations. The court was concerned that these records were not flagged by the analyst as containing domestic communications as well as foreign communications so that future analysts would know to handle that particular record with care. The court determined that each analyst would have to go through the minimization process from the beginning and that that would lead to more potential errors than if the record had been flagged so they had warning to proceed with caution.

In the end, the judge ruled that for this limited set of intercepts, the 4th amendment wasn't satisfied, but he suggested that if the NSA were to redevelop their minimization and retention processes, the acquisition process might pass muster. For all the other types of intercepts (phone, intercepts taken straight from big providers like google, and intercepts of transmissions containing only a single communication) the court found them to be fine.

You should read this opinion and you will see just how much effort the NSA is taking to avoid impermissible activities and to see the rigor with which the FISA court oversight holds their feet to the fire instead of accepting the biased descriptions from an agenda-driven report unskeptically.

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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
The fact that congress isn't bringing everybody involved in this program for impeachment is simply damning about how much your normal politician cares about your rights.
Absurd.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:46 AM   #588
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Here is what Benjamin Wittes suggests that Barack Obama should be saying about the recent revelations about the NSA found in an audit hysterically reported on by the Washington Post last week. The FISA court opinion which I linked in my previous post is more evidence of the truth of what Wittes writes about in this excellent article. Anyone who actually wants to cut through all the bullshit and actually understand what the NSA collection efforts are really about should read it (and the FISA court opinion, although it's kind of dry reading).

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Shameful as it is that these documents were leaked, they actually should give the public great confidence both in NSA’s internal oversight mechanisms and in the executive and judicial oversight mechanisms outside the agency. They show no evidence of any intentional spying on Americans or abuse of civil liberties. They show a low rate of the sort of errors any complex system of technical collection will inevitably yield. They show robust compliance procedures on the part of the NSA. And they show an earnest, ongoing dialog with the FISA Court over the parameters of the agency’s legal authority and a commitment both to keeping the court informed of activities and to complying with its judgments on their legality. While it took a criminal act to make this record public, we are deeply proud of this record and make no apologies for it.
Unfortunately, our bumbling President couldn't find his voice and instead plays into the alarmists' paranoia by announcing a "long planned" review of our intelligence collection methods.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:46 AM   #589
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The world according to Patteeu: "Well, they already violated my rights and lied to me about it. When I caught them, they apologized and double pinkie sweared they wouldn't do it again. They also have this fancy court where there is no counterpointing defense. As we all know if a court says its okay, that means its okay. We can trust them, even if they lied to us before, because they are from the government."

Tell me does that jackboot that you are licking taste good or do you just hope it stomps on your face last?
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:22 AM   #590
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
The world according to Patteeu: "Well, they already violated my rights and lied to me about it. When I caught them, they apologized and double pinkie sweared they wouldn't do it again. They also have this fancy court where there is no counterpointing defense. As we all know if a court says its okay, that means its okay. We can trust them, even if they lied to us before, because they are from the government."

Tell me does that jackboot that you are licking taste good or do you just hope it stomps on your face last?
Pat loves him some Jackboot, I think he has hopes of being the stomper someday.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:43 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
The world according to Patteeu: "Well, they already violated my rights and lied to me about it. When I caught them, they apologized and double pinkie sweared they wouldn't do it again. They also have this fancy court where there is no counterpointing defense. As we all know if a court says its okay, that means its okay. We can trust them, even if they lied to us before, because they are from the government."

Tell me does that jackboot that you are licking taste good or do you just hope it stomps on your face last?
I take it that you're going to be satisfied with ignorance instead of digging deeper into the court decision to see what actually happened. There was no intentional violation of rights (at least not in the sense that they set out to violate them or to spy on Americans). Instead, there were technical limitations that led them to implement safeguards that the judge decided weren't tight enough. And even then, it was only on a small fraction of the intercepts the NSA collects. Furthermore, when humans at the NSA found data within their database that didn't fall within their authority to monitor (after the automated collection method picked it up along with legitimate foreign intelligence target communications), they recognized it as such and took the appropriate steps to avoid it's use or dissemination.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:32 PM   #592
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I take it that you're going to be satisfied with ignorance instead of digging deeper into the court decision to see what actually happened. There was no intentional violation of rights (at least not in the sense that they set out to violate them or to spy on Americans). Instead, there were technical limitations that led them to implement safeguards that the judge decided weren't tight enough. And even then, it was only on a small fraction of the intercepts the NSA collects. Furthermore, when humans at the NSA found data within their database that didn't fall within their authority to monitor (after the automated collection method picked it up along with legitimate foreign intelligence target communications), they recognized it as such and took the appropriate steps to avoid it's use or dissemination.
First they tell us that they are not collecting information on Americans.

We found out that wasn't true.

They told us that this information wouldn't be used for domestic law enforcement.

We found out that wasn't true.

Then they told us that there were no 4th amendment violations.

We found out that wasn't true.

How many times do they have to lie to your face for you not to believe them anymore?

My god you are a marvelous useful idiot for the surveillance state.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:24 PM   #593
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
First they tell us that they are not collecting information on Americans.

We found out that wasn't true.

They told us that this information wouldn't be used for domestic law enforcement.

We found out that wasn't true.

Then they told us that there were no 4th amendment violations.

We found out that wasn't true.

How many times do they have to lie to your face for you not to believe them anymore?

My god you are a marvelous useful idiot for the surveillance state.
You should try to understand what actually is true instead of playing games with words (both yours and those of the biased articles you read) and, uncritically, believing the worst.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:34 PM   #594
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NSA operatives intentionally abused data collection.

Seems like every time Patteeu regurgitates his masters talking points, he just clowns himself further.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:52 PM   #595
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Eric Snowden is no Chelsea Manning.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:41 PM   #596
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Eric Snowden is no Chelsea Manning.
Both need a bowl of antifreeze.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:47 PM   #597
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Is this guy related to Edward Snowden?
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:56 PM   #598
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Is this guy related to Edward Snowden?
One's a household name I think.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:05 PM   #599
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Governments abuse power.

Deflect that argument.
yes they do , will and always shall
my problem is that they seem to be bought and paid for by the rich...
that it is now made legal
I liked it better when we could charge them with bribery instead of admiring their fund raising "SKILLZ"
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:32 AM   #600
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yes they do , will and always shall
my problem is that they seem to be bought and paid for by the rich...
that it is now made legal
I liked it better when we could charge them with bribery instead of admiring their fund raising "SKILLZ"
slowclap.gif
How about arresting a ****ing Wall Street banker? Or maybe the idiot responsible for giving a bunch of guns to the Mexican Cartels? Or a thousand other things that are exponentially worse than outing government invasion of privacy?
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