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Old 06-11-2013, 03:04 PM  
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
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ACLU sues over NSA phone records program

NEW YORK (AP) — Two prominent civil rights groups have filed a lawsuit against the National Security Agency over its program that reportedly collects the telephone records of millions of American customers of Verizon.

The American Civil Liberties Union and the New York Civil Liberties Union say in a lawsuit filed in federal court Tuesday that the program violates First Amendment rights of free speech and association. It also alleges the program violates Fourth Amendment rights to privacy.

The lawsuit additionally alleges the government’s program exceeds Congress’ authority.

ACLU Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer says the program is the same as requiring Americans to give the government a ‘‘daily report’’ of their activities and conversations.


President Barack Obama has defended the program and says privacy must be balanced with security.


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/20...8YO/story.html
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
The internment of Japanese Americans during WWII was also legal.
murdering people and stealing their cars is also legal
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Is it Eric or Edward Snowden?
It seems there was an Edward Snowden who worked for Dell at the same time Eric Snowden did, and also lived in Maryland and Hawaii at the same time. I think some confusion exists over whether they are the same person or not.

Also, Eric Snowden says he voted for a third party in 2008...Edward Snowden donated money to the Ron Paul campaign...
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Is it Eric or Edward Snowden?
who ever that snowden guy is that leaked.



handing out hundreds of AK47's & AR15's to drug cartels after smuggling them into mexico is legal.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:18 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
I wonder when the internment of Conservative Americans will begin?...


ask the dude who caused an ambassador to be murdered......
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:51 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
People can call him a traitor and treasonous but if he is exposing the Fed Gov's illegal actions then I can't see how he is either? Then again, if what the Fed Gov is doing is legal then dude is in trouble.
What the feds are doing is probably legal, this lawsuit will likely fail, and he is definitely in a lot of trouble.

He's still a hero who should be pardoned, and I expect the president and congressmen who survive elections over the next 6 years to work towards making PRISM illegal ASAP.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
It seems there was an Edward Snowden who worked for Dell at the same time Eric Snowden did, and also lived in Maryland and Hawaii at the same time. I think some confusion exists over whether they are the same person or not.

Also, Eric Snowden says he voted for a third party in 2008...Edward Snowden donated money to the Ron Paul campaign...
mmmmm, I thought Snowden said he voted O both times when he explained in the video he wasn't a motivated O hater
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:02 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls View Post
ACLU Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer says the program is the same as requiring Americans to give the government a ‘‘daily report’’ of their activities and conversations.
That asshole just made the list.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
What the feds are doing is probably legal, this lawsuit will likely fail, and he is definitely in a lot of trouble.

He's still a hero who should be pardoned, and I expect the president and congressmen who survive elections over the next 6 years to work towards making PRISM illegal ASAP.
it would depend whether you use the USC as reference or whether you use certain recently created secret legislation as legal reference --from what is being revealed, there is opposing legislation here.

I do not understand how you think the folks that are recording you are going to suddenly stop. And, I don't think the Utah super snooper plaza is going to go incomplete unless civilians stop them from completing it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
What the feds are doing is probably legal, this lawsuit will likely fail, and he is definitely in a lot of trouble.

He's still a hero who should be pardoned, and I expect the president and congressmen who survive elections over the next 6 years to work towards making PRISM illegal ASAP.
Quote:
In Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967), the Supreme Court ruled that a search occurs when 1) a person expects privacy in the thing searched and 2) society believes that expectation is reasonable.
I think it's reasonable to expect privacy on your cellphone conversations the same way you expect it on your land-line phone.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:15 PM   #25
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In Katz, the Supreme Court ruled that a search had occurred when the government wiretapped a telephone booth.[22] The Court's reasoning was that 1) Charles Katz expected that his phonebooth conversation would not be broadcast to the wider world and 2) society believes that expectation is reasonable.

Ok, if I can reasonably expect to have a private conversation on a public phone, I think my cell phone more than qualifies.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:27 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I think it's reasonable to expect privacy on your cellphone conversations the same way you expect it on your land-line phone.
If we're talking about the Verizon thing, they are gathering metadata on which phone number (not the name of who owns the phone, just the number) called which other phone number, when, where, and for how long. They need a warrant for a wiretap.

There could be an argument that even this information should need a warrant, but I don't think it'll survive the courts. Especially since they have apparently already blessed the whole arrangement.

Wishing for a magic silver bullet from a SCOTUS ruling seems useless to me. I'm presuming this is all legal, and we need to elect politicians who will make it illegal.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
If we're talking about the Verizon thing, they are gathering metadata on which phone number (not the name of who owns the phone, just the number) called which other phone number, when, where, and for how long. They need a warrant for a wiretap.

There could be an argument that even this information should need a warrant, but I don't think it'll survive the courts. Especially since they have apparently already blessed the whole arrangement.

Wishing for a magic silver bullet from a SCOTUS ruling seems useless to me. I'm presuming this is all legal, and we need to elect politicians who will make it illegal.
who I called when and where is none of their business.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:37 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
who I called when and where is none of their business.
I don't think your response has anything to do with the content of my post.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I think it's reasonable to expect privacy on your cellphone conversations the same way you expect it on your land-line phone.
This is true for CONTENT not true at all for records/logs. (at least according to Supremes right now)

The problem is that we are lumping two different issues together here. There is the absolutely known issue of the NSA collecting log data from phone companies and ISPs. There is the unknown but highly likely and often conjectured upon issue of the NSA collecting/intercepting/tapping the actual CONTENT of emails, phone conversations, etc... Issue #1 is unsavory but not illegal, issue #2 is illegal as all hell(here we have a legit 4th Amendment beef) but we have no solid proof of it happening.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
who I called when and where is none of their business.
While I agree with you, the law states that only your phone company can fight that battle, those records are not yours, they are the property of the phone company. So you can find a mythical phone company that will fight this battle or start your own telecom or simply stop using the phone. Those are the suck ass laws we currently live under.
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