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Old 06-11-2013, 06:47 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Betraying the country that has betrayed you..

Had a very interesting discussion today with a few peeps on the Snowden ordeal and some very interesting points were made. Basically it goes like this...


Snowden is being called a "Traitor" in some corners and a "Hero" in others. If you look at the majority of the people calling him the former you see the mainstream, DC ilk from both sides of the isle. You also see a lot of corporate suck-ups as well. On the other side you see people that while considered to be "whacko" a lot of times, generally care about the people even if some of their opinions are often misguided or fringe. And again, that is from both sides of the isle.

Example:

Boehner\Feinstein: Traitor

Beck\M. Moore: Hero

My eyebrows raised several times over the course of the last few days. One time was when President Obama said there has to be some "trade off" for security. I won't repost the Ben Franklin quote that seems to come to mind when you hear that.

Then you see 2 DC careers in Boehner and DiFi saying this guy is a traitor. When I see people such as them from both sides of the isle I ask myself are they genuine in their feelings or are they pissed because someone spit in their game?

So let's look at the people pointing the Traitor finger. Our government over the last few decades have gone to war, committed fraud, embezzled, cheated on taxes, allowed millions to sneak into the country illegally, bailed out the rich, took more and more control of our economy and enriched themselves while doing so. Our congress as well as our President and First Lady enjoy lavish benefits, perks and vacations on the tax payer dime. When Pelosi and McCain aren't flying around the world for some reason or another, the Obama's are deciding where they will take their monthly, separate vacations. When Kathleen Sibelius is cheating on here taxes she is taking more of yours and using the one-sided IRS to do so.

If you or I were to use a fake SSN we would be caught, tried and convicted. If Juan Pablo Martinez from Mexico does so we are told it's impossible to find these people and convict them yet our government consistently proposes allowing Jaun to stay in the country legally if he promises to pay his back taxes.

Our country's corporate elite have milked the tax payers for tax breaks and incentives and in return sent millions of jobs out of this country, laid off 100's of 1,000's of workers to further enrich and already rich minority and taken billions of $'s in tax payer monies.

In the name of "national security" we have to be virtually strip searched to get on an airplane, babies have had their milk thrown out, you can't bring on a bottle of shampoo over 3 oz. and you can be stuck on some list that claims you to be a terrorist threat when you are nothing of the sort.

In the name of "national security" the city of Boston was all but shut down and taken over by a para-military force that chased down 2 guys while illegally performing house-house searches.


Now in the name of "national security" we have a congress that wants to severely limit our 2nd amendment and some want to rid us of the right totally, limit our 1st amendment rights and now our 4th amendment rights.

When they get caught they tell the voters of this country they will investigate themselves and get to the bottom of it all. Holder will investigate Holder, Hillary will investigate Hillary and Obama will pretend to not know anything until he reads the newspaper.

Now it has come to light that just about every form of communication you conduct is being recorded thus making it available to be accessed at a later date should it ever be deemed necessary.

Meanwhile, almost 10 months later, we still can't get a clear answer on things like Benghazi.

Did Snowden betray his country? Perhaps. Has this country betrayed the average American? Most definitely.

Last edited by petegz28; 06-11-2013 at 07:02 PM..
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:02 PM   #2
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We get to see who the neocons in both parties are in this debate. The ones on the left finally have to have some sunshine shown on their faces. We now get to see their scales.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:10 PM   #3
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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I don't know if Snowden did something illegal or not? But the way the congress and their lackeys are acting, I'd say it's more likely they got caught and are pissed off about it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:18 PM   #4
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Are you under the impression that there should be no freedom traded for security, petegz28? That pure, completely insecure freedom is the way to go?
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:21 PM   #5
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Are you under the impression that there should be no freedom traded for security, petegz28? That pure, completely insecure freedom is the way to go?
Why not post cops at every corner, require a travel pass to go from one sector to another, place the military along the borders, fly drones 24/7 and allow the police to enter your home whenever they want for whatever they want?


One day it's take your shoes off to get on a plane...the next its taping all your cell phone calls.... the next will be ?????
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Why not post cops at every corner, require a travel pass to go from one sector to another, place the military along the borders, fly drones 24/7 and allow the police to enter your home whenever they want for whatever they want?


One day it's take your shoes off to get on a plane...the next its taping all your cell phone calls.... the next will be ?????
Are you going to answer my question?
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Are you going to answer my question?
I did
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:27 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Are you under the impression that there should be no freedom traded for security, petegz28? That pure, completely insecure freedom is the way to go?
Personally, I'd sure like to know all of the terms of the trade before I decide whether I'd be willing to make it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:29 PM   #9
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Personally, I'd sure like to know all of the terms of the trade before I decide whether I'd be willing to make it.
You mean you don't blindly trust a bunch of people who steal and lie for a living?
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I did
No, you asked a different question. Do you need me to remind you of the question I asked you?
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, you asked a different question. Do you need me to remind you of the question I asked you?
No, I answered it. Just not the answer you wanted.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:43 PM   #12
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Personally, I'd sure like to know all of the terms of the trade before I decide whether I'd be willing to make it.
I can understand and appreciate that. Unfortunately, due to the immense size of our country, we have to rely on our elected representatives to make that trade for us. I'd be the first to agree that we've done a pretty bad job of choosing our representatives at times.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:44 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
No, I answered it. Just not the answer you wanted.
What was your answer? Was it yes? Or was it no? I couldn't decipher it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:46 PM   #14
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Personally, I'd sure like to know all of the terms of the trade before I decide whether I'd be willing to make it.
I agree but I understand pat's point.

Unfortunately the surveillance state is here to stay.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:46 PM   #15
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What was your answer? Was it yes? Or was it no? I couldn't decipher it.
That answer is how much do you have to trade and for what amount of security? They were doing all this and Boston happened so do I need to give up more freedoms?
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