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Old 06-11-2013, 07:47 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Betraying the country that has betrayed you..

Had a very interesting discussion today with a few peeps on the Snowden ordeal and some very interesting points were made. Basically it goes like this...


Snowden is being called a "Traitor" in some corners and a "Hero" in others. If you look at the majority of the people calling him the former you see the mainstream, DC ilk from both sides of the isle. You also see a lot of corporate suck-ups as well. On the other side you see people that while considered to be "whacko" a lot of times, generally care about the people even if some of their opinions are often misguided or fringe. And again, that is from both sides of the isle.

Example:

Boehner\Feinstein: Traitor

Beck\M. Moore: Hero

My eyebrows raised several times over the course of the last few days. One time was when President Obama said there has to be some "trade off" for security. I won't repost the Ben Franklin quote that seems to come to mind when you hear that.

Then you see 2 DC careers in Boehner and DiFi saying this guy is a traitor. When I see people such as them from both sides of the isle I ask myself are they genuine in their feelings or are they pissed because someone spit in their game?

So let's look at the people pointing the Traitor finger. Our government over the last few decades have gone to war, committed fraud, embezzled, cheated on taxes, allowed millions to sneak into the country illegally, bailed out the rich, took more and more control of our economy and enriched themselves while doing so. Our congress as well as our President and First Lady enjoy lavish benefits, perks and vacations on the tax payer dime. When Pelosi and McCain aren't flying around the world for some reason or another, the Obama's are deciding where they will take their monthly, separate vacations. When Kathleen Sibelius is cheating on here taxes she is taking more of yours and using the one-sided IRS to do so.

If you or I were to use a fake SSN we would be caught, tried and convicted. If Juan Pablo Martinez from Mexico does so we are told it's impossible to find these people and convict them yet our government consistently proposes allowing Jaun to stay in the country legally if he promises to pay his back taxes.

Our country's corporate elite have milked the tax payers for tax breaks and incentives and in return sent millions of jobs out of this country, laid off 100's of 1,000's of workers to further enrich and already rich minority and taken billions of $'s in tax payer monies.

In the name of "national security" we have to be virtually strip searched to get on an airplane, babies have had their milk thrown out, you can't bring on a bottle of shampoo over 3 oz. and you can be stuck on some list that claims you to be a terrorist threat when you are nothing of the sort.

In the name of "national security" the city of Boston was all but shut down and taken over by a para-military force that chased down 2 guys while illegally performing house-house searches.


Now in the name of "national security" we have a congress that wants to severely limit our 2nd amendment and some want to rid us of the right totally, limit our 1st amendment rights and now our 4th amendment rights.

When they get caught they tell the voters of this country they will investigate themselves and get to the bottom of it all. Holder will investigate Holder, Hillary will investigate Hillary and Obama will pretend to not know anything until he reads the newspaper.

Now it has come to light that just about every form of communication you conduct is being recorded thus making it available to be accessed at a later date should it ever be deemed necessary.

Meanwhile, almost 10 months later, we still can't get a clear answer on things like Benghazi.

Did Snowden betray his country? Perhaps. Has this country betrayed the average American? Most definitely.

Last edited by petegz28; 06-11-2013 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
That answer is how much do you have to trade and for what amount of security? They were doing all this and Boston happened so do I need to give up more freedoms?
So doesn't that prove that they weren't spying on Americans?
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #17
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I can understand and appreciate that. Unfortunately, due to the immense size of our country, we have to rely on our elected representatives to make that trade for us. I'd be the first to agree that we've done a pretty bad job of choosing our representatives at times.
And as long as "my" representatives are willing to tell me exactly the bargain they've made for me, so I can fire their asses if I don't like the bargain the next time they ask me reconfirm my faith in them as my representatives, I think that's fine.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:54 PM   #18
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
So doesn't that prove that they weren't spying on Americans?
Actually, no. You want to take it at face value? Sure. You want to see that event for what it truly was? You might not say such things.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
That answer is how much do you have to trade and for what amount of security? They were doing all this and Boston happened so do I need to give up more freedoms?
So you do think that pure, completely insecure freedom is the way to go? That's nuts.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
You want to see that event for what it truly was?
Yes so please explain.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:03 PM   #21
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Yes so please explain.
Dude there was so much BS in the Boston bombing. It was sloppy. It was a false-flag operation and there is plenty of evidence to substantiate that fact. And what did we learn out of it? That the people of Boston were okay with a para-military force taking over their city and conducting illegal searches.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:05 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Dude there was so much BS in the Boston bombing. It was sloppy. It was a false-flag operation and there is plenty of evidence to substantiate that fact. And what did we learn out of it? That the people of Boston were okay with a para-military force taking over their city and conducting illegal searches.
Good Lord, petegz28.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:06 PM   #23
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Good Lord, petegz28.
You have proof otherwise?
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Dude there was so much BS in the Boston bombing. It was sloppy. It was a false-flag operation and there is plenty of evidence to substantiate that fact. And what did we learn out of it? That the people of Boston were okay with a para-military force taking over their city and conducting illegal searches.
How's the weather in Olathe today?
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:13 PM   #25
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Yeah, the fact is that the government hasn't caught anybody that they didn't entice and entrap in the first place. Shoe bomber and underwear bomber were defeated by the passengers on the planes they were flying on. The Russians tipped us off about the Boston bombers and our experts in security did nothing.

Not only do you have to give me the terms of the deal, you have to prove you are competent enough to actually uphold your end of that deal. So far the gov is 0 for.

Really, the greatest security change that happened after 9/11 is that the public realized that the game had changed and no longer were the rules of a hijacking that you just sit back and let it happen. The government had no part in that, the citizenry decided for themselves.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:19 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Dude there was so much BS in the Boston bombing. It was sloppy. It was a false-flag operation and there is plenty of evidence to substantiate that fact. And what did we learn out of it? That the people of Boston were okay with a para-military force taking over their city and conducting illegal searches.
Wait, so you believe that the Boston bombing was carried out by the U.S. government? What in your opinion would they have to gain by doing this?
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:23 PM   #27
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Wait, so you believe that the Boston bombing was carried out by the U.S. government? What in your opinion would they have to gain by doing this?
Dude, just go to youtube and there is video after video of people breaking down the sloppiness of this job. I mean from fake blood to fake injuries, the whole bit. Right to to Craft contractors coincidentally being at the site of the bombing.

What would they have to gain? Lots of things from distracting people from other things they are doing to a pilot run of implementing martial law.

The sad fact is that most Americans have this naive idea that our government would never, ever do things that just about every other government in history has done. Thus making it possible for our government to do shit right under our noses.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Dude there was so much BS in the Boston bombing. It was sloppy. It was a false-flag operation and there is plenty of evidence to substantiate that fact. And what did we learn out of it? That the people of Boston were okay with a para-military force taking over their city and conducting illegal searches.
Oh, JFC. You're turning into one of the biggest nuts on CP.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:33 PM   #29
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We get to see who the neocons in both parties are in this debate. The ones on the left finally have to have some sunshine shown on their faces. We now get to see their scales.
I was thinkin' the same thing. Graham and Guiliani were absolutely abhorrent on Greta tonight.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:33 PM   #30
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Oh, JFC. You're turning into one of the biggest nuts on CP.
Except there is tons of video out there to back my claim and none to back yours. Don't you find that odd at all? There is all kinds of video showing the real deal with the Boston bombing and all you have is "well the government says..." .
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