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Old 06-11-2013, 09:59 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Animal Cruelty

What's DC's general take on the issue of animal cruelty?

Do you think it's an issue worth spending governmental resources over to combat?

Do you think there should be harsh punishments for egregious violations of animal cruelty?

Do you think regular offenders of animal cruelty should face prison time or property seizure?

Do you think that undercover investigators of animal cruelty should be punished by law for revealing their findings?
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Like I said, I don't have a formal definition ready.
Even a formal decision would be vague and arbitrary, really.

Everybody draws a line somewhere. It's one of those things where any attempt to draw a line will of course mean there are activities on both sides of that line that aren't much different... Of course, that doesn't mean a line shouldn't be drawn.

I've just been reading up a lot on factory farming recently and the ridiculously lax laws that supposedly govern them, to say nothing of the fact of the increasingly strict punishments for those who expose animal cruelty.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:49 PM   #32
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Just get to your freaking point Direckshun and paste the 5 or 6 articles we know you have copied.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
A person who would torture an animal just for kicks is a threat to people as well.
This is pretty much my one and only concern in regards to this matter.

On an intellectual level, I draw very little distinction between an ant, a fish, a chicken or a dog. We as a society have no problem with killing ants in all sorts of horrific ways or stabbing fish in the mouth with a hook when they go to grab a bite to eat or all the crappy conditions chickens are put through but if you kick a dog you better watch out because people will form a ****ing lynch mob for you. It's completely ridiculous when you look at it dispassionately. BUT (and this is a big but, like Sir Mix-A-Lot big) people who mistreat animals in what are not societally acceptable ways (unlike farming, fishing, insect control, etc) most likely have very very serious mental issues and are a few short steps away from full on sociopathy.

So basically I think animals are just animals and what many loons would consider "cruelty" is just silly over emotional nonsense. On the other hand, anyone who enjoys inflicting pain or discomfort on animals for no societally accepted reasonable utilitarian purpose is a dangerously unstable individual.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
You know what I'm also not thrilled about? The circus. Carting elephants and tigers and such around the country in small cages. Likely training them largely through beatings. If it isn't cruel, it just seems ****ed up and wrong.
I'm in the same ship with slaughterhouses, here. Many of these animals are probably very, very intelligent. At least as intelligent as dogs. You can probably train them without cruel measures, as I suspect many are.

But, of course, that does mean some abuses will occur. But circuses aren't that bad of a gig for most animals so long as they aren't getting abused.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:51 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Not necessarily. We're omnivores, it's perfectly moral to kill and eat animals.

Humanely, anyway. When we're subjecting animals to needless cruelty and mistreatment, I'd say that warrants legal recourse.
Not necessarily what? I'm ok with eating animals and do often. I agree that there is a decent way to go about it without undue cruelty and pain.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:51 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
Just get to your freaking point Direckshun and paste the 5 or 6 articles we know you have copied.
Daily Show had a thing about animal cruelty tonight.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:54 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
This is pretty much my one and only concern in regards to this matter.

On an intellectual level, I draw very little distinction between an ant, a fish, a chicken or a dog. We as a society have no problem with killing ants in all sorts of horrific ways or stabbing fish in the mouth with a hook when they go to grab a bite to eat or all the crappy conditions chickens are put through but if you kick a dog you better watch out because people will form a ****ing lynch mob for you. It's completely ridiculous when you look at it dispassionately. BUT (and this is a big but, like Sir Mix-A-Lot big) people who mistreat animals in what are not societally acceptable ways (unlike farming, fishing, insect control, etc) most likely have very very serious mental issues and are a few short steps away from full on sociopathy.

So basically I think animals are just animals and what many loons would consider "cruelty" is just silly over emotional nonsense. On the other hand, anyone who enjoys inflicting pain or discomfort on animals for no societally accepted reasonable utilitarian purpose is a dangerously unstable individual.
I'd quibble a bit with this, but I think this is reasonable, on the whole.

What do you think of the radical overpacking of chickens, however?

Spoiler!


This is not for twisted pleasure, it's done exclusively for maximizing space and profit. Thoughts?
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:55 PM   #38
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Daily Show had a thing about animal cruelty tonight.
Inspired the thread, actually. It's always been a topic that's disturbed me, greatly, and I don't know if we've ever had this chat here on the forum.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:56 PM   #39
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Not necessarily what? I'm ok with eating animals and do often. I agree that there is a decent way to go about it without undue cruelty and pain.
I would suppose that's my general philosophy.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:56 PM   #40
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There is a chicken farm right off of I-70, just east of the US-65 get off. Holy mother of hell does it stink when you drive past that place, and that smell lingers a good mile or so both ways. Smells like dirty socks and ass. Disgusting.
Pig farms too. My ex had a sister who had a big farm in Iowa. Wheeew!
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:56 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
You know what I'm also not thrilled about? The circus. Carting elephants and tigers and such around the country in small cages. Likely training them largely through beatings. If it isn't cruel, it just seems ****ed up and wrong.
I can see that.. but many others would think you are wrong. It's a pretty tough area to pin down and it varies wildly from year to year and country to country.

I personally think people who treat their pets like they are their children are screwed up. I'm not talking about the family dog that you've had for 10 years and is "part of the family." I'm talking about the people who buy their pets outfits and use them as a proxy for human interaction. To me, that type of crap is rampant right now and it just seems to be bordering on being mentally unsound behavior. Growing up, our pets were treated very well and we loved them but in the end they were still just pets.

SIDE NOTE: I made the mistake of mentioning this opinion to a girlfriend and she flipped out on me. Thought I was accusing her of being crazy and went into full on histrionics. Funny part is, I wasn't referencing her at all, lucky for me her flipping out showed me she really was nuts.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:59 PM   #42
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I was thinking of buying my Chinese Crested Powder Puff a bed with a canopy. She does have a Christmas stocking. And I did make a unicorn for her head which I tied on; then spray painted her rainbow colors for a fantasy party. Would this be cruelty!

Oh yes, I remember when my daughter dressed her up in her Built-a-Bear outfits.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:02 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'd quibble a bit with this, but I think this is reasonable, on the whole.

What do you think of the radical overpacking of chickens, however?

Spoiler!


This is not for twisted pleasure, it's done exclusively for maximizing space and profit. Thoughts?
Meh. It doesn't upset me but I guess I would prefer if there was a better more "humane" way, not really something I care about much. I really think of them more as pre-food then as animals.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:03 PM   #44
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My wife reads quite a bit on this topic actually, and so I hear about it. Conditions at plants, the way they get the cows to keep giving milk etc. It is somewhat bothersome when you read/hear it, but I can't say the cruelty part of it is what makes me change any eating habits.
It's more the belief that the actual product may not be healthy coming from those type of conditions that gets me to either eat less of it, or look for some sort of organic or free range alternative.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:05 PM   #45
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You're exactly who I had in mind.
sweet
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