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Old 06-11-2013, 10:59 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Animal Cruelty

What's DC's general take on the issue of animal cruelty?

Do you think it's an issue worth spending governmental resources over to combat?

Do you think there should be harsh punishments for egregious violations of animal cruelty?

Do you think regular offenders of animal cruelty should face prison time or property seizure?

Do you think that undercover investigators of animal cruelty should be punished by law for revealing their findings?
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:23 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I understand your ant analogy and on the top layers of this issue, you are correct.

But, you can't look at those top layers and say this is it. There is emotion involved. Thats a game changer.

I would risk my life to save my dog from drowning or getting harmed by something. I don't do that for an ant.
Because you don't share a bond with an ant.

Would you risk your life to save a random dog?

I'm guessing not.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:23 PM   #107
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Animals are ours to use but not abuse.
That's why I buy them a drink first.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:25 PM   #108
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What's the feeling on genetically engineering animals for the slaughter, i.e. in the case of chickens breeding featherless for the slaughter.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:31 PM   #109
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Tyson sells chickens under a lot of different names and products. Good luck.
Oh, and they are probably the largest producer of beef. They produce hogs too, but I'm not sure how big their market is on that.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:19 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
Because you don't share a bond with an ant.

Would you risk your life to save a random dog?

I'm guessing not.
N0, but I would try to save the dog of someone that I know.

Happens a lot down here, walking along the beach with your dog. Dog wonders out into the water a little too far and gets caught in a riptide and then the owner dies trying to save them. Sadly, happens 3-4 times a year.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:31 PM   #111
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N0, but I would try to save the dog of someone that I know.

Happens a lot down here, walking along the beach with your dog. Dog wonders out into the water a little too far and gets caught in a riptide and then the owner dies trying to save them. Sadly, happens 3-4 times a year.
Heard a news clip on Imus where a lady from Colorado was watching a live feed from a helicopter of her house burning. She said the family's two pet cats were still inside. My first thought was how did you get out but you didn't save your pets, but anyway, she was heartbroken. A trusting pet can be hard to let go.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:28 PM   #112
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It's intellectually dishonest to pretend an ant has the same level of feeling and emotion that a dog does. Ants are bugs. They have simple nervous systems. They don't think, feel, or anything like that. Comparing a dog to an ant is like comparing people to ants. Dogs are MUCH closer to us than they are to those things.

Now if one wants to compare pigs and dogs (which have equal levels of intelligence) then game on... but bugs are bugs man.
Actually, it's not intellectually dishonest at all. Out of all the animals in the world including humans, ants actually have the largest brain in proportion to body size. Ants are highly intelligent, just in a different sense. Ants have what's considered collective intelligence. A single ant isn't capable of much on its own. But a colony of ants are capable of social systems that rival even human's abilities to work together. If you would compare a colony of ants to a pack of dogs, the colony of ants would be superior in just about every single way. Vastly superior. Look into swarm intelligence, and how it's being used to solve human problems, even in computing methods.

They farm fungi, raise aphids as livestock, launch armies to war, use chemical sprays to alarm and confuse enemies, capture slaves, engage in child labor, and exchange information ceaselessly. Every single member of an ant colony has a distinct job. These jobs range from builder, transporter, guard, farmer, medic, coroner, trash remover, soldier(even different "Ranks"), nanny, and so on. They raise aphids like humans raise cattle. They have aphid ranches, where they feed them and guard them, and keep them from leaving. When the aphids run out of resources on their little ant ranch, they pick them up and move their aphid herd to a new location and start over.

They grow their own fungus, for feeding the colony. Ants even use sophisticated horticultural techniques to enhance their crop yields. They secrete chemicals with antibiotic properties to inhibit mold growth, and devised fertilization protocols using manure. Leafcutter Ants grow mushrooms to feed their colony, a notoriously difficult thing to grow... requiring an enormously sophisticated system of vents and tunnels to control the humidity and temperature.

The use chemical pheromones to communicate, and are capable of communications that would shock you.

They are voracious warriors, with insanely intelligent and creative battle tactics. Separate species, or hostile factions of the same species, may be seen massed in combat, which can be continued for hours, days or weeks. Some of the most extensive battles observed have been fought between Pavement Ants, but there have been massive battles between Argentinian supercolonies that have left millions of ants dead in days. And not just head-to-head battles are fought either, psychological warfare between species has been witnessed as well. Amazon ants (also known for taking slaves) have been observed surrounding an enemy nest and simply sitting and waiting while their victims became more and more frenzied by the camped-out menace. After two entire days, the Amazons attacked, easily defeating their enemies who had been unable to forage and were disorganized and panicked from the seige. By combining force of numbers with organized aggression, ants have become the greatest insect killers on Earth. Even of their own kind.

And there's lots of them. The total biomass of all the ants on Earth is roughly equal to the total biomass of all the people on Earth. They are also essential for many ecological systems. If we removed all the ants from the Earth, many ecosystems would completely collapse.

Sorry to go on a long rant here, but ants are one of the most fascinating and impressive creatures on Earth. Don't confuse an animal's ability to emote with actual intelligence. That's often how it's perceived, but that's not how it actually works at all. A single ant wouldn't be considered smarter than a single dog. But a colony of ants would be considered more intelligent and efficient than a colony of just about any other creature. Ants have infinitely more in common with humans than dogs do.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:45 PM   #113
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Farms that do things correctly/humanely don't typically mind you visiting and seeing what they do. The ones that remove the beaks of young chickens, step on them, and hit them with wrenches typically don't want you anywhere near their operations.

Gov Brandstad has made it a crime to videotape farms even if you have permission to be on them.
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:22 PM   #114
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Actually, it's not intellectually dishonest at all. Out of all the animals in the world including humans, ants actually have the largest brain in proportion to body size. Ants are highly intelligent, just in a different sense. Ants have what's considered collective intelligence. A single ant isn't capable of much on its own. But a colony of ants are capable of social systems that rival even human's abilities to work together. If you would compare a colony of ants to a pack of dogs, the colony of ants would be superior in just about every single way. Vastly superior. Look into swarm intelligence, and how it's being used to solve human problems, even in computing methods.

They farm fungi, raise aphids as livestock, launch armies to war, use chemical sprays to alarm and confuse enemies, capture slaves, engage in child labor, and exchange information ceaselessly. Every single member of an ant colony has a distinct job. These jobs range from builder, transporter, guard, farmer, medic, coroner, trash remover, soldier(even different "Ranks"), nanny, and so on. They raise aphids like humans raise cattle. They have aphid ranches, where they feed them and guard them, and keep them from leaving. When the aphids run out of resources on their little ant ranch, they pick them up and move their aphid herd to a new location and start over.

They grow their own fungus, for feeding the colony. Ants even use sophisticated horticultural techniques to enhance their crop yields. They secrete chemicals with antibiotic properties to inhibit mold growth, and devised fertilization protocols using manure. Leafcutter Ants grow mushrooms to feed their colony, a notoriously difficult thing to grow... requiring an enormously sophisticated system of vents and tunnels to control the humidity and temperature.

The use chemical pheromones to communicate, and are capable of communications that would shock you.

They are voracious warriors, with insanely intelligent and creative battle tactics. Separate species, or hostile factions of the same species, may be seen massed in combat, which can be continued for hours, days or weeks. Some of the most extensive battles observed have been fought between Pavement Ants, but there have been massive battles between Argentinian supercolonies that have left millions of ants dead in days. And not just head-to-head battles are fought either, psychological warfare between species has been witnessed as well. Amazon ants (also known for taking slaves) have been observed surrounding an enemy nest and simply sitting and waiting while their victims became more and more frenzied by the camped-out menace. After two entire days, the Amazons attacked, easily defeating their enemies who had been unable to forage and were disorganized and panicked from the seige. By combining force of numbers with organized aggression, ants have become the greatest insect killers on Earth. Even of their own kind.

And there's lots of them. The total biomass of all the ants on Earth is roughly equal to the total biomass of all the people on Earth. They are also essential for many ecological systems. If we removed all the ants from the Earth, many ecosystems would completely collapse.

Sorry to go on a long rant here, but ants are one of the most fascinating and impressive creatures on Earth. Don't confuse an animal's ability to emote with actual intelligence. That's often how it's perceived, but that's not how it actually works at all. A single ant wouldn't be considered smarter than a single dog. But a colony of ants would be considered more intelligent and efficient than a colony of just about any other creature. Ants have infinitely more in common with humans than dogs do.
Take it easy there, Willard.

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Old 06-14-2013, 08:27 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Actually, it's not intellectually dishonest at all. Out of all the animals in the world including humans, ants actually have the largest brain in proportion to body size. Ants are highly intelligent, just in a different sense. Ants have what's considered collective intelligence. A single ant isn't capable of much on its own. But a colony of ants are capable of social systems that rival even human's abilities to work together. If you would compare a colony of ants to a pack of dogs, the colony of ants would be superior in just about every single way. Vastly superior. Look into swarm intelligence, and how it's being used to solve human problems, even in computing methods.

They farm fungi, raise aphids as livestock, launch armies to war, use chemical sprays to alarm and confuse enemies, capture slaves, engage in child labor, and exchange information ceaselessly. Every single member of an ant colony has a distinct job. These jobs range from builder, transporter, guard, farmer, medic, coroner, trash remover, soldier(even different "Ranks"), nanny, and so on. They raise aphids like humans raise cattle. They have aphid ranches, where they feed them and guard them, and keep them from leaving. When the aphids run out of resources on their little ant ranch, they pick them up and move their aphid herd to a new location and start over.

They grow their own fungus, for feeding the colony. Ants even use sophisticated horticultural techniques to enhance their crop yields. They secrete chemicals with antibiotic properties to inhibit mold growth, and devised fertilization protocols using manure. Leafcutter Ants grow mushrooms to feed their colony, a notoriously difficult thing to grow... requiring an enormously sophisticated system of vents and tunnels to control the humidity and temperature.

The use chemical pheromones to communicate, and are capable of communications that would shock you.

They are voracious warriors, with insanely intelligent and creative battle tactics. Separate species, or hostile factions of the same species, may be seen massed in combat, which can be continued for hours, days or weeks. Some of the most extensive battles observed have been fought between Pavement Ants, but there have been massive battles between Argentinian supercolonies that have left millions of ants dead in days. And not just head-to-head battles are fought either, psychological warfare between species has been witnessed as well. Amazon ants (also known for taking slaves) have been observed surrounding an enemy nest and simply sitting and waiting while their victims became more and more frenzied by the camped-out menace. After two entire days, the Amazons attacked, easily defeating their enemies who had been unable to forage and were disorganized and panicked from the seige. By combining force of numbers with organized aggression, ants have become the greatest insect killers on Earth. Even of their own kind.

And there's lots of them. The total biomass of all the ants on Earth is roughly equal to the total biomass of all the people on Earth. They are also essential for many ecological systems. If we removed all the ants from the Earth, many ecosystems would completely collapse.

Sorry to go on a long rant here, but ants are one of the most fascinating and impressive creatures on Earth. Don't confuse an animal's ability to emote with actual intelligence. That's often how it's perceived, but that's not how it actually works at all. A single ant wouldn't be considered smarter than a single dog. But a colony of ants would be considered more intelligent and efficient than a colony of just about any other creature. Ants have infinitely more in common with humans than dogs do.
Very impressed with your understanding of ants. Amazing bugs. On colony identified ghrough dna goer from italy to northern France. Good post
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:35 PM   #116
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No way should Washington get involved. I think an issue such as this should be handled on the local level, not even the state level..
This should be true for nearly everything.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:55 PM   #117
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This should be true for nearly everything.
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