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Old 06-12-2013, 02:51 PM  
RNR RNR is offline
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Can we all agree on one thing?

Our government is broken and both parties suck~
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:49 PM   #31
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So blame the people—the ones who have consistently polled that they're not happy with the direction of the country since 2004?
The people who are easily fooled and who are consistently short-sighted and selfish. Yes.
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
People should be allowed to better themselves without being forced into working. The basic needs should be provided allowing people to self actualize and become an expression of their own creativity.

We dont need markets or groceries if we all contributed in our own way. Those who become part of the growing arts will produce what they like and share it freely. Those who sew will make coverings for all. And those who are healers will heal those who ail.

We only become a consumer when the corporate interests market things to us.
I can agree with that.



We need more "propaganda" of this style.



/I still want markets though. I love walking around a Farmer's market.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:06 PM   #33
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Only Because these posters are so freakin cool:







/this was a time when the government did represent the interest of the people
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:10 PM   #34
InChiefsHell InChiefsHell is offline
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OK, how about this. Can we agree on the fact that the divide between Americans has only gotten deeper and wider in the last decade? And NOBODY BUT US can fix that?
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:15 PM   #35
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The people who are easily fooled and who are consistently short-sighted and selfish. Yes.
That's too general. Generalities won't do here. Because, that applies to those who are easily scared by fear tactics of govt—who likes to have an enemy.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:17 PM   #36
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by InChiefsHell View Post
OK, how about this. Can we agree on the fact that the divide between Americans has only gotten deeper and wider in the last decade? And NOBODY BUT US can fix that?
Well, that's true. But the NSA spying issue, is dividing both within the D and R parties now.

I guess we can toss Stossel in with the Libertarians at least on the surface of his self-admitted label.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:20 PM   #37
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, that's true. But the NSA spying issue, is dividing both within the D and R parties now.

I guess we can toss Stossel in with the Libertarians at least on the surface of his self-admitted label.


Not really. When "the issue" is defined and when "the issue" is fleshed out with facts, things will calm down.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:36 PM   #38
Bwana Bwana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Our government is broken and both parties suck~
Without question, they are all one big collection of cluster ****.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:43 PM   #39
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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Yes it's broken, and yes of course our politicians suck, that's why it's broken.

My choice at this point is to remove myself from the system as best I can. I might still participate on a local level, but I won't worry about whats going on nationally, since I know it's all bad, it's rigged and their aint shit I can do about it.

I'm gonna go underground, build a network of like minded people, and contribute as little as I possibly can in terms of taxes that support the corrupt beauracracy in D.C.

I'll do everything I can to keep my dollars local and to support the local economy, particularly businesses and agencies that share my values and beliefs.

I will not allow any outsiders, particularly federales to bully anyone in my community.

You don't bother me, I won't bother you.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:44 PM   #40
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:45 PM   #41
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Not really. When "the issue" is defined and when "the issue" is fleshed out with facts, things will calm down.
Well, I am speaking about currently aka at this time based on what side people are taking.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:01 PM   #42
RNR RNR is offline
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No.
Why do you say no? How is it not broken? Can you answer this with a question? Of course you can and most likely will~
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:08 PM   #43
theelusiveeightrop theelusiveeightrop is offline
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Two party system is the problem. Perpetual corruption.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:50 PM   #44
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
People should be allowed to better themselves without being forced into working. The basic needs should be provided allowing people to self actualize and become an expression of their own creativity.

We dont need markets or groceries if we all contributed in our own way. Those who become part of the growing arts will produce what they like and share it freely. Those who sew will make coverings for all. And those who are healers will heal those who ail.

We only become a consumer when the corporate interests market things to us.
you surprised me with this.

it is indeed unfortunate those in power have divided this wonderful nation for their own filthy needs.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:52 PM   #45
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
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Two party system is the problem. Perpetual corruption.
Honestly you couldn't be more wrong. I used to think that way until I actually looked at it. The two party(or more specifically final election being two candidates) is a truly brilliant piece of government. If we had everyone and their uncle running on the ballot you actually have a good chance of getting even more extreme people in office.

Why? When there are two people running you have to fight over the center of the electorate. If you're too extreme to one side or the other then the center of the populace won't vote for you. A two candidate final system actually helps moderate viewpoints..well in principle.

The problem is, in practice it doesn't always work out that way for two reasons. No 1 reason is gerrymandering. If you make a district 'safe' for one party then you're going to increase the likelihood of getting a crazy person in that district since the district is structured so almost no chance of voting for the other side even if they are more moderate than the crazy from the gerrymandered party. Ironically...and you'll almost never hear me say anything positive about California government, CA actually has a solution that 'helps' with this issue. Instead of the vote being the 1 from Dem and 1 from Rep, the final election are the two top vote getters in the primary, regardless of party. So you can have 2 Dems facing each other in the Nov elections or 2 Reps. It's not a perfect solution but helps moderate extremism to a bit.

The second issue is incumbents, incumbents have a massive advantage to get reelected. Part of the reason is they are rarely challenge in their own parties primary. When you have a party primary again the candidates are fighting over the center. But in a primary you are fighting for the center of your party, which tends to be far more to the 'right' or 'left' of the total electorate as a whole. Because your primary 'center' is far more extreme than the electorate you are giving the incumbent fodder to use against you in the main election to pitch you as not a moderate candidate and win that key central vote.

If you have 10 parties running in a general election it's likely you'll have many crowding the center(because that's where most people live) and only a few on the extremes on either side. With enough people fighting over the center, none of them will be able to get a consensus and you can have the extremist candidate win. While the extreme base may be small it wouldn't be shared among many candidates.

We actually want our politicians to always be moving to the center of the electorate. Unfortunately due to gerrymandering and lack of single term limits that tends not to happen in practice.
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