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Old 06-15-2013, 06:26 AM  
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
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Al Gore: NSA Surveillance Program Violates Constitution

Al Gore: NSA Surveillance Violates The Constitution


Former Vice President Al Gore broke with many of his fellow Democrats Friday and said that the NSA surveillance programs violate the constitution.

"This in my view violates the constitution. The fourth amendment and the first amendment – and the fourth amendment language is crystal clear," he told The Guardian, which revealed the agency's phone surveillance and reported on its Internet data-mining. "It is not acceptable to have a secret interpretation of a law that goes far beyond any reasonable reading of either the law or the constitution and then classify as top secret what the actual law is."

"I quite understand the viewpoint that many have expressed that they are fine with it and they just want to be safe but that is not really the American way," he added.

Gore called "blanket" surveillance "obscenely outrageous" in a tweet on June 5. Nevertheless, he has mostly criticized Obama over climate change, an issue where the 2000 presidential nominee won a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts in 2007.

The revelations have scrambled traditional Democratic and Republican labels. A bill to require the Attorney General to declassify the court opinions used to justify the programs was introduced by Sens. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah). Sen Rand Paul (R-Ky.) announced Thursday that he planned to take legal action against the programs, after initially introducing his own legislation to prevent the government from collecting data on Americans.

On the other hand, both Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) have said that Edward Snowden, who admitted to leaking documents showing the existence of the programs to The Guardian, committed treason. Congressional leaders in both houses have called for him to be prosecuted, with Boehner going so far as to call Snowden a "traitor."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...p_ref=politics
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:36 AM   #2
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
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I don't need Al Gore to validate my convictions, but thx for posting. I'd like five mins in an alley with Boehner.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:27 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls View Post
I don't need Al Gore to validate my convictions, but thx for posting. I'd like five mins in an alley with Boehner.
Yep, I agree on both counts...I posted this more to hear what the lefties thought of their darling Al saying this than to validate what any conservatives probably already thought...

And Boehner couldn't get on my good side with a rim job...
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:33 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by the article cited by mikey23545
...Congressional leaders in both houses have called for him to be prosecuted, with Boehner going so far as to call Snowden a "traitor."
I haven't yet formed an opinion on Snowden, but in my opinion there's an important difference between being a traitor to one's government and being a traitor to the rights and liberties of the citizens that our government is supposed to serve.

Personally, I have little issue with acts that damage the government while protecting the interest of the people or the individual citizen.

I have much more of a problem with a person that protects the government at the expense of the rights of its citizens. Such a person may be the more dangerous traitor, IMO. Sadly, I would say that traitorous behavior has become my government's default setting. Boehner is certainly no exception.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #5
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For those of you who believe that you have an inalienable right to keep the metadata of your phone and email conversations (or the contents for that matter) out of the hands of the government, why do you hold that belief?

I can understand why people might think that it's a good idea to keep this data out of the hands of the government, but I don't understand why people think it's a right.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:52 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
For those of you who believe that you have an inalienable right to keep the metadata of your phone and email conversations (or the contents for that matter) out of the hands of the government, why do you hold that belief?

I can understand why people might think that it's a good idea to keep this data out of the hands of the government, but I don't understand why people think it's a right.
4th amendment.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:55 PM   #7
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
4th amendment.
The 4th amendment doesn't say anything about emails or phone calls. In the late 18th century, if you gave a verbal message to a messenger to deliver to someone and that messenger decided to tell the government about it, no one would have thought the government was violating the sender's 4th amendment rights.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:59 PM   #9
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Everyone forgets the Ninth Amendment.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:28 PM   #10
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Everyone forgets the Ninth Amendment.
OK, since you apparently haven't forgotten it, why does it apply? Why should a 3rd party be compelled to keep data it holds (and in many cases generates) private from government on your behalf?
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The 4th amendment doesn't say anything about emails or phone calls. In the late 18th century, if you gave a verbal message to a messenger to deliver to someone and that messenger decided to tell the government about it, no one would have thought the government was violating the sender's 4th amendment rights.
Isn't this the same logic behind gun control advocates' argument that the 2nd amendment didn't anticipate what modern arms would be?
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:56 PM   #13
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Isn't this the same logic behind gun control advocates' argument that the 2nd amendment didn't anticipate what modern arms would be?
No. As I pointed out, the constitution wouldn't have protected this even if we were talking about the 18th century equivalent.

When I said that the 4th amendment didn't say anything about emails or phone calls, it was really just my way of saying that "4th Amendment" or "Everyone forgets the Ninth Amendment" aren't really adequate answers to my question since neither of them clearly apply in this situation. If someone thinks they do, I'd like to hear them explain how, rather than just pretending that it's obvious.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:25 PM   #14
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Police rely on a variety of tools to investigate crimes, including the ability to tap into a suspect's telephone conversations. While such wiretaps can produce very good evidence against potential criminals, it is also a major invasion of privacy and police must follow strict procedures when performing a wiretap.

The Wiretap Order

The police must first obtain a wiretap order before eavesdropping on your phone conversations. This is similar to a warrant. The police must prove to a judge that they have probable cause to believe that tapping your phone lines will help them to solve a serious crime, such as drug trafficking, money laundering, or terrorism. However, because wiretapping is so intrusive, the police are held to a higher standard when seeking wiretap orders than when they are seeking warrants.

One communication that is generally exempt from the wiretap order requirement is phone conversations from prison. Prisoners have a greatly reduced expectation of privacy and cannot expect that their phone conversations will remain private. For this reason, some criminal attorneys choose to meet their clients in person face to face, to try and ensure that their communication is private.

Restrictions on Wiretapping

Wiretapping orders are often restricted in order to minimize any invasion of privacy. In particular, wiretapping orders usually expire after a certain period of time, so the police cannot keep listening forever. Police are also required to limit wiretapping only to phone conversations that are likely to yield evidence against the suspect.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
Police rely on a variety of tools to investigate crimes, including the ability to tap into a suspect's telephone conversations. While such wiretaps can produce very good evidence against potential criminals, it is also a major invasion of privacy and police must follow strict procedures when performing a wiretap.

The Wiretap Order

The police must first obtain a wiretap order before eavesdropping on your phone conversations. This is similar to a warrant. The police must prove to a judge that they have probable cause to believe that tapping your phone lines will help them to solve a serious crime, such as drug trafficking, money laundering, or terrorism. However, because wiretapping is so intrusive, the police are held to a higher standard when seeking wiretap orders than when they are seeking warrants.

One communication that is generally exempt from the wiretap order requirement is phone conversations from prison. Prisoners have a greatly reduced expectation of privacy and cannot expect that their phone conversations will remain private. For this reason, some criminal attorneys choose to meet their clients in person face to face, to try and ensure that their communication is private.

Restrictions on Wiretapping

Wiretapping orders are often restricted in order to minimize any invasion of privacy. In particular, wiretapping orders usually expire after a certain period of time, so the police cannot keep listening forever. Police are also required to limit wiretapping only to phone conversations that are likely to yield evidence against the suspect.
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