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Old 06-15-2013, 05:26 AM  
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Al Gore: NSA Surveillance Program Violates Constitution

Al Gore: NSA Surveillance Violates The Constitution


Former Vice President Al Gore broke with many of his fellow Democrats Friday and said that the NSA surveillance programs violate the constitution.

"This in my view violates the constitution. The fourth amendment and the first amendment and the fourth amendment language is crystal clear," he told The Guardian, which revealed the agency's phone surveillance and reported on its Internet data-mining. "It is not acceptable to have a secret interpretation of a law that goes far beyond any reasonable reading of either the law or the constitution and then classify as top secret what the actual law is."

"I quite understand the viewpoint that many have expressed that they are fine with it and they just want to be safe but that is not really the American way," he added.

Gore called "blanket" surveillance "obscenely outrageous" in a tweet on June 5. Nevertheless, he has mostly criticized Obama over climate change, an issue where the 2000 presidential nominee won a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts in 2007.

The revelations have scrambled traditional Democratic and Republican labels. A bill to require the Attorney General to declassify the court opinions used to justify the programs was introduced by Sens. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah). Sen Rand Paul (R-Ky.) announced Thursday that he planned to take legal action against the programs, after initially introducing his own legislation to prevent the government from collecting data on Americans.

On the other hand, both Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) have said that Edward Snowden, who admitted to leaking documents showing the existence of the programs to The Guardian, committed treason. Congressional leaders in both houses have called for him to be prosecuted, with Boehner going so far as to call Snowden a "traitor."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...p_ref=politics
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:12 PM   #31
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:17 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The 4th amendment doesn't say anything about emails or phone calls. In the late 18th century, if you gave a verbal message to a messenger to deliver to someone and that messenger decided to tell the government about it, no one would have thought the government was violating the sender's 4th amendment rights.
Well did the government force the messenger to give over the message or did he give it willingly? And was the messenger threatened with jail time if he told me that he was forced to give up the message? If you are going to use an analogy at least use one that is correct.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:05 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The 4th amendment doesn't say anything about emails or phone calls. In the late 18th century, if you gave a verbal message to a messenger to deliver to someone and that messenger decided to tell the government about it, no one would have thought the government was violating the sender's 4th amendment rights.
The USC wasn't even written until the end of that century.

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.

The gov't -- and you, are in the wrong here.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:37 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
For those of you who believe that you have an inalienable right to keep the metadata of your phone and email conversations (or the contents for that matter) out of the hands of the government, why do you hold that belief?

I can understand why people might think that it's a good idea to keep this data out of the hands of the government, but I don't understand why people think it's a right.
Metadata.....yeah, right

NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...hout-warrants/
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The 4th amendment doesn't say anything about emails or phone calls. In the late 18th century, if you gave a verbal message to a messenger to deliver to someone and that messenger decided to tell the government about it, no one would have thought the government was violating the sender's 4th amendment rights.
Illegal search. You are searching my property illegally by searching my email.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:26 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by BigRichard View Post
Well did the government force the messenger to give over the message or did he give it willingly? And was the messenger threatened with jail time if he told me that he was forced to give up the message? If you are going to use an analogy at least use one that is correct.
He's giving it up freely in exchange for immunity from civil or criminal lawsuits.

Which one do you think is correct?
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:28 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls View Post
The USC wasn't even written until the end of that century.

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.

The gov't -- and you, are in the wrong here.
No, it was written before the end of that century. The USC went into effect in 1789, i.e. the late 18th century.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:30 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Metadata.....yeah, right

NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...hout-warrants/
So does that mean you agree with me on the metadata part of this issue and your constitutional concern is limited to the content issue?
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:33 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
Illegal search. You are searching my property illegally by searching my email.
Is it really your property? If you send me an email, I'm free to do what I want with it so at some point it must stop being your property. And what about the metadata? Are you claiming that it's your property too?
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:35 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, it was written before the end of that century. The USC went into effect in 1789, i.e. the late 18th century.
and that is "the end of that century". eureka, we agree on something. until your next post.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:38 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls View Post
and that is "the end of that century". eureka, we agree on something. until your next post.
If you agreed with me, why did you say it "wasn't even written until the end of that century" instead of saying "I agree" or nothing at all? Whatever the case, it's good that you recognize I was right now.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:41 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Is it really your property? If you send me an email, I'm free to do what I want with it so at some point it must stop being your property. And what about the metadata? Are you claiming that it's your property too?
folks aren't sending the gov't emails, so there's that.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:44 AM   #43
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If you agreed with me, why did you say it "wasn't even written until the end of that century" instead of saying "I agree" or nothing at all? Whatever the case, it's good that you recognize I was right now.
no, you aren't "right". you have dishonestly presented a case. it's like saying there were better automobile drivers during the 1800's because evidence shows ...

lunacy.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:25 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Is it really your property? If you send me an email, I'm free to do what I want with it so at some point it must stop being your property. And what about the metadata? Are you claiming that it's your property too?
Goddamit, dude...You just can't admit it is wrong for the government to listen in on your phone calls like this, can you?

You are just too damn egotistical to admit you're wrong. You're making a spectacle of yourself.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:25 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
He's giving it up freely in exchange for immunity from civil or criminal lawsuits.

Which one do you think is correct?
Yeah, that is freely.
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