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Old 06-18-2013, 11:32 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Homeland Security. More Power. And this time...Domestic Spying

The juggernaut of the DHS and its morphing into a larger and larger more dangerous and costly arm of the government may get power that no one, even libs, want them to have.

Is this an issue that could actually unite R and D?


http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/18/dh...powers-as-nsa/
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:31 PM   #16
Bwana Bwana is offline
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Race card post.
Yeah, seems to be the norm for the guy.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:28 AM   #17
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FBI Director admitted yesterday that drones are already being used in the United States to spy on people. Perhaps the big hoopla about the phones and emails was thrown out first so this little tidbit would have less impact when announced. I guess nobody cares
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:46 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thatguy View Post
Let me guess....when Bush and his henchmen originally passed this bill not a single **** was given by the right. Enter black president amd now the world has ended because of the bill.
Bush didn't want to create DHS, he caved to political pressure created by Congressional democrats who saw an opportunity to expand the bureaucracy and grow the government workers union. The people opposed to DHS were the conservatives. I was pretty supportive of Bush when it came to his response to 9/11 to say the least, but I was against creating a new department.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:58 AM   #19
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On the thread topic, I think it would be constitutionally permissible for DHS to have this power to collect data, but I think it would be a bad idea to give it to them. The IRS and the Justice Department should give us all reason to be reluctant to hand this power to an agency that is aimed at us without a very compelling reason.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
The juggernaut of the DHS and its morphing into a larger and larger more dangerous and costly arm of the government may get power that no one, even libs, want them to have.

It's beyond weird that you think that bigger law enforcement and fewer personal rights (other than on the gun issue) is a LIBERAL-supported idea. Big time law enforcement is usually viewed as a Republican/conservative idea. The Warren court -- where the SCOTUS extended Constitutional protections and interpreted the 14th amendment as applying most of the Bill of Rights rights to the states as well as the federal government is universally referred to as a liberal court. When you have a case before the SCOTUS and it's about whether someone's rights were violated, it's the conservatives who usually back the government.

Now you're painting liberals as uncaring of Constitutional rights? You are literally saying black is white here.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:30 AM   #21
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Bush didn't want to create DHS, he caved to political pressure created by Congressional democrats who saw an opportunity to expand the bureaucracy and grow the government workers union. The people opposed to DHS were the conservatives. I was pretty supportive of Bush when it came to his response to 9/11 to say the least, but I was against creating a new department.
You're provably wrong on this one, sorry.

The office of Homeland Security Director was established by Bush like immediately after 9/11. He was the one that gave the job it's creepy name.

Quote:
Department Creation

Eleven days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge was appointed as the first Director of the Office of Homeland Security in the White House. The office oversaw and coordinated a comprehensive national strategy to safeguard the country against terrorism and respond to any future attacks.
http://www.dhs.gov/creation-departme...eland-security

The Homeland Security Act, which melded a bunch of different executive branch organizations under one umbrella, with the creepy name, was introduced by REPUBLICAN House majority leader Dick Armey.

ARMEY stated that the freaking plan was Bush's, then stated he was convinced by Bush about the whole thing.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — When House Majority Leader Dick Armey, a conservative with a stated dislike for bureaucracies, first heard of President Bush's plans for a new Department of Homeland Security last month, he reacted in characteristic fashion.

"My knee jerked," the Texas Republican recalled in an interview yesterday. "What? Another cabinet-level position?"

A now-converted Armey presented his version of legislation yesterday creating the new department, a 200-page bill that would leave most of the President's requests untouched. Bush's proposed legislation was only 30 pages long.
http://articles.philly.com/2002-07-1...eland-security

Co-sponsors? That would be 112 Republicans in the House, and FOUR Democrats.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/hr5005

Votes? 295 For, 132 Against. Republicans voted 206 FOR and 10 against. (that's 95+% for those who care). Democrats voted 88 For and 120 Against.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/h367

The vote was 90 to 9 in favor in the Senate. All 9 votes against were Democrat votes. 100% support of the bill by Senate Republicans.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/s249


So please tell me again how Bush was strong-armed into this by those evil Democrat Congressmen? And let's face it, in 2002 your boy Cheney would had to have been completely on board with this for it to move forward.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:35 AM   #22
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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Yeah, seems to be the norm for the guy.

You know just something I noticed but the blacks who play the race card the most are high yellow.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:29 AM   #23
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
You're provably wrong on this one, sorry.

The office of Homeland Security Director was established by Bush like immediately after 9/11. He was the one that gave the job it's creepy name.



http://www.dhs.gov/creation-departme...eland-security

The Homeland Security Act, which melded a bunch of different executive branch organizations under one umbrella, with the creepy name, was introduced by REPUBLICAN House majority leader Dick Armey.

ARMEY stated that the freaking plan was Bush's, then stated he was convinced by Bush about the whole thing.



http://articles.philly.com/2002-07-1...eland-security

Co-sponsors? That would be 112 Republicans in the House, and FOUR Democrats.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/hr5005

Votes? 295 For, 132 Against. Republicans voted 206 FOR and 10 against. (that's 95+% for those who care). Democrats voted 88 For and 120 Against.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/h367

The vote was 90 to 9 in favor in the Senate. All 9 votes against were Democrat votes. 100% support of the bill by Senate Republicans.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/s249


So please tell me again how Bush was strong-armed into this by those evil Democrat Congressmen? And let's face it, in 2002 your boy Cheney would had to have been completely on board with this for it to move forward.
You haven't proven me wrong. The reason those votes went the way they did was because the Bush version of DHS initially didn't enable the government employee unions to expand the way that democrats wanted. Republicans voted for it because Bush was the undisputed leader of the party and it was his proposal in the wake of 9/11. Party unity was at a high point. Your own evidence shows that Dick Armey, a conservative, initially opposed the creation of DHS, just like I said.

And you seem to be misreading your first link. Tom Ridge was not appointed the first director of the Homeland Security Department 11 days after 9/11 because it didn't exist. He was appointed as the first Homeland Security Adviser and he was intended to work out of the White House as a coordinating adviser along the same lines of the National Security Adviser. That was Bush's approach before he reversed his opposition to creating a new department and gave in to the pressure to reorganize coming from democrats. Eventually, Tom Ridge was named the first Secretary of Homeland Defense.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cheney was on board with the reversal. I'm sure he believed they had bigger fish to fry at the time and spending a lot of political capital to fight a popular democrat idea may not have seemed pragmatic.

Here's what the democrats themselves had to say about their role in the creation of DHS in a 2006 political statement (according to ontheissues.org):

Quote:
Democrats are unwavering in our commitment to keep our nation safe. For Democrats, homeland security begins with hometown security. That’s why we led the fight to create the Department of Homeland Security and continue to fight to ensure that our ports, nuclear plants, & other sensitive facilities are secured against attack. - Source: 2006 Democratic Party Congressional Promise , Nov 1, 2006
And in this succinct paragraph, CNN confirms pretty much everything I said:

Quote:
Bush initially resisted the idea of a new department, which had been championed primarily by Democrats in the wake of the attacks. But Bush embraced the concept in June and used the issue effectively on the campaign trail this past fall, criticizing Democrats who differed with him over the issue of labor rights within the new department.
Sorry.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:16 PM   #24
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There are more people talking about a rapper stepping on a piece of cloth than there are talking about the government spying on civilians. Amazing!!
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:23 PM   #25
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There are more people talking about a rapper stepping on a piece of cloth than there are talking about the government spying on civilians. Amazing!!
I don't believe that to be true. There's more than one thread on government spying.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:54 PM   #26
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I don't believe that to be true. There's more than one thread on government spying.
That thread has 11 pages, more than any other thread on the front page of DC.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #27
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That thread has 11 pages, more than any other thread on the front page of DC.
But people have been discussing the NSA thing for pages and pages. The story is more than a few days old.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:19 PM   #28
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And what about the "See Something, Say Something" mantra of DHS. Look at the initials of THAT! SS and SS to double our pain.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:11 PM   #29
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You know just something I noticed but the blacks who play the race card the most are high yellow.
You're such a racist pos..
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:39 AM   #30
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That thread has 11 pages, more than any other thread on the front page of DC.
Please post when we have talked long enough on subjects and when we should talk about something else. Also add your preferences for subjects to discuss...and keep updated and bump it so we don't disappoint you.
Thanks in advance~
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