Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2013, 06:51 AM  
NewChief NewChief is online now
Greenbacker and Loving Liberal
 
NewChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Casino cash: $9454
The Tale of Two Presidents (drones)

Damn. Salon has been out in front on the drone protests for a few years (Greenwald used to write for them). This is pretty dramatically stated, though:

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/21/a_ta...%93_and_obama/
A tale of two presidents: The one we voted for – and Obama
Recent leaks reveal a frightening reality: In fighting terrorism, we have resorted to engaging in terrorism
By David Sirota

Topics: White House, Kill List, Drones, New York Times, Robert Greenwald, Richard Engel
A tale of two presidents: The one we voted for – and Obama

This is a tale of two presidents – the one we hope we have and the one we actually have. It is also a tale of two kinds of violence – the surgical and the indiscriminate – and how the latter blurs the distinction between self-defense and something far more sinister.

This story began last year, when the White House told the New York Times that President Obama was personally overseeing a “kill list” and an ongoing drone bombing campaign against alleged terrorists, including American citizens. Back then, much of the public language was carefully crafted to reassure us that our country’s military power was not being abused.

In the Times’ report – which was carefully sculpted by Obama administration leaks – the paper characterized the bombing program as “targeted killing” with “precision weapons.” It additionally described “the care that Mr. Obama and his counterterrorism chief take in choosing targets” and claimed that as “a student of writings on war by Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, the president believes that he should take moral responsibility” for making sure such strikes are as precise as possible.

The unstated deal being offered to America was simple: Accept a president claiming unprecedented despotic authority in exchange for that president promising to comport himself as an enlightened despot – one who seeks to limit the scope of America’s ongoing violence.

Many of the president’s partisan supporters would never have agreed to such a bargain if the executive in question were a Republican. They would have expressed outrage at news that, according to the Times, the president was “count(ing) all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants” even when those males happen to be innocent civilians. But because it was a Democratic commander in chief, many liberals tacitly agreed to the deal, reassuring themselves that this was a president who would only use violence in the most narrow ways.

That, though, brings us to the second part of this parable – the part that unfolded earlier this month when blood-soaked reality crashed the myth. In this latter chapter, we learned that the president isn’t personally overseeing “targeted” killing – he is evidently overseeing indiscriminate killing.

That was the key discovery in NBC News correspondent Richard Engel’s report finding that “the CIA did not always know who it was targeting and killing in drone strikes” approved by the president. Employing so-called “signature strikes,” the president has been authorizing the assassination of people “based on their patterns of behavior” according to Engel – that is, based simply on where a person “meets individuals, makes phone calls and sends emails.” In all, the identities of up to a quarter of those assassinated were unknown at the time that the president’s drone strikes went forward.

The deep-thinking moralist that we were told was in the White House might look at this and worry that in fighting terrorism we have resorted to engaging in terrorism. After all, deliberately killing people without regard for their identity seems like an effort to terrorize a whole population. Indeed, as this week’s stunning new video series by documentarian Robert Greenwald illustrates, such violence seems eerily similar to the kind of terrorism that our government publicly decries.

But, then, that’s this saga’s big reveal. In embracing such tactics, this parable’s main character shows that he probably isn’t the pious Aquinas-loving saint his aides present him as and that many hoped he would be. This story instead increasingly looks like a cautionary tale about a wholly unenlightened authoritarian who displays little concern about which particular lives he is choosing to end.

This, of course, is not a particularly new or unique story. It is, in fact, the oldest story in human history: the story of how power corrupts and how absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Posts: 19,416
NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.NewChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:46 PM   #31
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $21904
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post

What’s so bad about DRONE WARFARE?
Drone warfare is WRONG.
It’s wrong to kill people simply because they are suspected of crimes.

Drone warfare is ILLEGAL.
Extra-judicial killing outside of war zones is illegal under U.S. and international law.

Drone warfare is RECKLESS.
These things are not specific to drones. You could say the same thing about pretty much any missile or bomb delivery system.
Posts: 20,447
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:53 PM   #32
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $21904
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
You're complaining about snarky responses to a discussion?
Snark has its place, but you used it to dodge the question.
Plus, you didn't use it well.
Posts: 20,447
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:01 PM   #33
listopencil listopencil is offline
sic semper tyrannis
 
listopencil's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Partibus Infidelium
Casino cash: $13318
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Grand_Illusion View Post
It gets old doesn't it. Appropriate picture, BTW.

TGI
Yes, it does. It's a cycle that's not worth repeating. I don't really bother to do anything other than post an appropriate pic when it happens. It's not really worth the effort to do anything else.
__________________
"As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind I'd still be in prison."


Posts: 29,088
listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:18 PM   #34
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $21904
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Yes, it does. It's a cycle that's not worth repeating. I don't really bother to do anything other than post an appropriate pic when it happens. It's not really worth the effort to do anything else.
Your reasons were collateral damage and too covert.
The first one isn't unique to drones.
The second is just silly considering we're talking about war with terrorists. I guess you're against the military's stealth aircraft as well.

You're going into BEP mode here again. Apparently you think that your past bad argument makes any further discussion irrelvant.
Posts: 20,447
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:53 PM   #35
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Not sure how I feel about drones; do know there would be much more debate if this were a topic in say, 2007.

Here's an article from Hopkins U:

What’s so bad about DRONE WARFARE?
Drone warfare is WRONG.
It’s wrong to kill people simply because they are suspected of crimes. It’s worse to send drones to rain missiles down on villages simply because people suspected of crimes live there. Hundreds of civilians have already been killed by U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. If the U.S. and other countries expand the use of military drones, the carnage will increase exponentially.

“Do the United States and its people really want to tell those of us who live in the rest of the world that our lives are not the same value as yours?” — Archbishop Desmond Tutu

Drone warfare is ILLEGAL.
Extra-judicial killing outside of war zones is illegal under U.S. and international law.

“No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.” — President Ronald Reagan, U.S. Executive Order 12333

Drone warfare is RECKLESS.
“What scares me about drone strikes is how they’re perceived around the world. The resentment created by American use of unmanned strikes… is much greater than the average American appreciates. They are hated on a visceral level, even by people who’ve never seen one or seen the effects of one.” — General Stanley McChrystal (retired)

“Drones are an example of technology outpacing our morality and thinking.” — U.S. Navy Captain, quoted in Foreign Policy (12 Feb 2013)

Why should you be concerned?
◦Targeted killing by drones is wrong, illegal, andreckless. But that’s only part of the problem. The technology itself is extremely dangerous. By allowing governments to dispatch robots instead of soldiers, drones make it easier to wage war anywhere, anytime. This is making the world a much more dangerous place.
◦The U.S. is waging drone warfare in secret and without democratic discussion. The technology is advancing faster than our consideration of the ethical, military, social, and environmental implications. Domestically, the use of drones to conduct wide surveillance and police the population violates our right to privacy and can easily be abused by the government.
◦Lucrative military contracts—especially those for drone warfare and weapons—are distorting university research and education. The secrecy demanded by military contracts violates the principles of open academic exchange and transparent university governance.
Reckless? Maybe. There's no denying that there's potential for a PR problem here as General McChrystal states.

But illegal? No. These so-called "extra-judicial killings" are taking place in war zones. They're no more illegal than a routine air strike in a war zone would be.

And wrong? No, again. The people targeted aren't criminal suspects, they're enemy combatants and their command and control support. There's always a chance that a military strike like this will do collateral damage, but our strikes do less collateral damage than they've ever done and drones decrease the level of collateral damage for a given strike even further.

I agree with this article that the fact that drones can be employed without putting our troops at as much direct risk makes it easier to use them, but the same can be said for airplanes and missiles and tanks and body armor. Technology is advancing, with us or without us. We could decide to unilaterally opt out of the drone race or to unilaterally disarm ourselves of aircraft and missiles, but we'd be stupid to do so. The better bet is to make sure we maintain a tech lead in these areas and to develop countermeasures for when our adversaries start fielding them.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 01:55 PM   #36
blaise blaise is offline
Gonzo = Sexy Bitch
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plano, TX
Casino cash: $130
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Snark has its place, but you used it to dodge the question.
Plus, you didn't use it well.
You're hardly an objective judge, so forgive me if I don't take that to heart.
Posts: 21,064
blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:00 PM   #37
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
If the focus of the apparent controversy was who, then that's one thing. However, a lot of the controversy does seem focused on the tool being used for some reason.

No, we would not take kindly to that, and we are not using drones in England. They are being used in places that can't or won't take action against these guys themselves. We went into Pakistan without permission because they wouldn't do it and couldn't be trusted to know of our plans. That wouldn't have happened if Osama had been hiding in England.
This was true of our bin Laden raid and it's definitely an important characteristic to remember about Pakistan (especially in contrast to our relationship with Great Britain).

But despite Pakistan's shakiness as an ally, we should also remember that Pakistan initially supported our drone program. They provided a base from which to launch our drones against targets within their country. They even took credit for the killings initially. It was only after the program's existence became public that the Pakistani government started expressing misgivings in order to deal with domestic political pressure.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:01 PM   #38
fan4ever fan4ever is offline
Veteran
 
fan4ever's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Casino cash: $7922
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
But illegal? No. These so-called "extra-judicial killings" are taking place in war zones. They're no more illegal than a routine air strike in a war zone would be.
This is not a topic I spend a lot of time on, but have these drone strikes all taken place in war zones? I'll have to google that.
Posts: 4,296
fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:05 PM   #39
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
This is not a topic I spend a lot of time on, but have these drone strikes all taken place in war zones? I'll have to google that.
They've mostly taken place in Afghan/Pakistan, Yemen, and Somolia (that we know of). There may have been a few in Libya and I'm not as supportive of that "war" given the lack of Congressional input.

When we're targeting radical islamists like al Qaeda though, the war zone is global, where ever they are.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:06 PM   #40
fan4ever fan4ever is offline
Veteran
 
fan4ever's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Casino cash: $7922
Found this immediately; I guess one example.

Dated May 22, 2013

Obama Admin. Admits for First Time It Killed Four U.S. Citizens in Drone Strikes Outside War Zones
The United States has formally confirmed for the first time that it killed four American citizens in Yemen and Pakistan, "outside of areas of active hostilities."

The United States has formally confirmed for the first time that it killed four American citizens in Yemen and Pakistan, "outside of areas of active hostilities." The acknowledgment came in a letter from Attorney General Eric Holder.

In a letter dated May 22, 2013, Holder wrote to congressional leaders that the Obama administration "has specifically targeted and killed one U.S. citizen, Anwar al-Aulaqi. The United States is further aware of three other U.S. citizens who have been killed in such U.S. counterterrorism operations over that same time period: Samir Khan, ’Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi, and Jude Kenan Mohammed. These individuals were not specifically targeted by the United States." The FBI has removed its most wanted page for Mohammad,
Posts: 4,296
fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:11 PM   #41
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $21904
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
This is not a topic I spend a lot of time on, but have these drone strikes all taken place in war zones? I'll have to google that.
Congress, in their wisdom , basically gave W Bush (and therefore, now Obama) its blessing to go anywhere and do anything if a terrorist can be found there. The war zone is Earth.
Posts: 20,447
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:11 PM   #42
fan4ever fan4ever is offline
Veteran
 
fan4ever's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Casino cash: $7922
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
When we're targeting radical islamists like al Qaeda though, the war zone is global, where ever they are.
Well doesn't that go both ways? Say Pakistan says we're harboring an enemy of their country and takes out our Embassy...screw the collateral damage...is that very different? American soil...so what? We've set a new standard?
Posts: 4,296
fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:13 PM   #43
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Found this immediately; I guess one example.

Dated May 22, 2013

Obama Admin. Admits for First Time It Killed Four U.S. Citizens in Drone Strikes Outside War Zones
The United States has formally confirmed for the first time that it killed four American citizens in Yemen and Pakistan, "outside of areas of active hostilities."

The United States has formally confirmed for the first time that it killed four American citizens in Yemen and Pakistan, "outside of areas of active hostilities." The acknowledgment came in a letter from Attorney General Eric Holder.

In a letter dated May 22, 2013, Holder wrote to congressional leaders that the Obama administration "has specifically targeted and killed one U.S. citizen, Anwar al-Aulaqi. The United States is further aware of three other U.S. citizens who have been killed in such U.S. counterterrorism operations over that same time period: Samir Khan, ’Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi, and Jude Kenan Mohammed. These individuals were not specifically targeted by the United States." The FBI has removed its most wanted page for Mohammad,
An example of what? Who said they were outside of war zones? Eric Holder didn't say it in his statement.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:16 PM   #44
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Well doesn't that go both ways? Say Pakistan says we're harboring an enemy of their country and takes out our Embassy...screw the collateral damage...is that very different? American soil...so what? We've set a new standard?
We've set a new standard? No. I can't even imagine what new standard it is that you think we've set.

Do you think Pakistan would be smart to do that?
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:16 PM   #45
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $21904
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Found this immediately; I guess one example.

Dated May 22, 2013

Obama Admin. Admits for First Time It Killed Four U.S. Citizens in Drone Strikes Outside War Zones

The United States has formally confirmed for the first time that it killed four American citizens in Yemen and Pakistan, "outside of areas of active hostilities."
"Outside war zones" was the editorial choice of whoever wrote this. "Outside of areas of active hostilities" was the administration language. However, if AQ is there, Congress gave approval to use military force.
Posts: 20,447
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:39 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.