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Old 06-22-2013, 01:18 PM  
mnchiefsguy mnchiefsguy is offline
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Obama administration suing to force companies to hire criminals

Apparently being a convicted criminal is now a protected class:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...al-background/

Seems silly to me....if a company does not wish to hire employees with a criminal record, they should not be forced too. Is Obama going to cover the business's losses when a criminal decides to help himself to the cash register?
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:22 AM   #61
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
As an employer, you have the right to ignore any mistakes a person might make. Forcing that thinking on all employers though is just plain wrong.
The problem is that it was incorrectly applied and inconsistently applied. Furthermore, is it fair to assume that not all employers are equal? EEOC doesn't apply to small businesses w/ fewer than 15-20 employees, for example. These decisions aren't being forced on all employers because not all employers are subjected to them.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:41 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Nice straw man.

For further conversation, when you say "parasitic lives", are said "parasites
such because they don't own businesses?

I would love to see your hierarchy of what constitutes a worthy profession and not.

Additional points for irony: your use of code words (democrat as an adjective) and concepts (allusion to job creators) while attempting to set yourself above the fray.
I think he's saying your profession relies on the tax subsidy of us taxpayers. Whereas our professions don't rely on you. That's his point, and I know you can see where he's coming from.


Teaching is a worthy profession (overpaid but worthy). We do need fewer government jobs and more private sector ones.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:41 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Read the article, dumbass.

The EEOC alleges Dollar General violated the civil rights of two applicants. In the one case, the person allegedly was denied employment even though a felony conviction was incorrectly attributed to her. And the commission alleges BMW’s policy doesn't consider the nature of the crimes or how old they are.
EEOC alleges that when BMW required contract employees at the South Carolina plant to reapply for their jobs in 2008 a disproportionate percentage of those terminated were black, including some who had already worked for company contractors.


If they can establish that happened, then it makes sense to investigate them further. If not, then the case has no merit.
I've seen the SC case as well as many other cases like it (including rulings that borrow the language in Missouri).

You're understating the impact of the holdings. The headline is largely accurate, employers cannot refuse to hire based on felony convictions because of the disproportionate impact it has on minorities. There's no real way around it. In the last case I read that dealt with this, the holding essentially said that blacks make up 10% of the populace but 35% of felony convictions, as such, refusing to hire convicted felons creates a disparate impact on the hiring of black applicants and as such, businesses cannot refuse to hire based on felony convictions.

It's awful law. If I'm an employer, I should damn sure be able to decide that I'm not willing to hire convicted felons based exclusively on the fact that they're convicted felons.

This line of cases has prohibited that. It's garbage.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:49 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
The problem is that it was incorrectly applied and inconsistently applied. Furthermore, is it fair to assume that not all employers are equal? EEOC doesn't apply to small businesses w/ fewer than 15-20 employees, for example. These decisions aren't being forced on all employers because not all employers are subjected to them.
I'm more talking in general, not to the specific EEOC suits.

I do think that once you're hired I think it's immoral for an employer to change the rules and fire you. The BMW suit seems pretty chicken shit to me.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:16 PM   #65
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
I've seen the SC case as well as many other cases like it (including rulings that borrow the language in Missouri).

You're understating the impact of the holdings. The headline is largely accurate, employers cannot refuse to hire based on felony convictions because of the disproportionate impact it has on minorities. There's no real way around it. In the last case I read that dealt with this, the holding essentially said that blacks make up 10% of the populace but 35% of felony convictions, as such, refusing to hire convicted felons creates a disparate impact on the hiring of black applicants and as such, businesses cannot refuse to hire based on felony convictions.

It's awful law. If I'm an employer, I should damn sure be able to decide that I'm not willing to hire convicted felons based exclusively on the fact that they're convicted felons.

This line of cases has prohibited that. It's garbage.
I'm not opposed to certain crimes prohibiting one from gaining employment, but I don't think that the separation between misdemeanor and felony is always the most efficient determinant of that.

Isn't family violence battery a misdemeanor in some places? To me, that's a far more egregious crime than getting caught with 60 grams of pot.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:20 PM   #66
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I think he's saying your profession relies on the tax subsidy of us taxpayers. Whereas our professions don't rely on you. That's his point, and I know you can see where he's coming from.


Teaching is a worthy profession (overpaid but worthy). We do need fewer government jobs and more private sector ones.
No professions rely on teachers and teachers are overpaid? Well, ok then.

You do realize that the entire technology industry relies on indirect government subsidy in order to function, right?
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:53 PM   #67
Sweet Daddy Hate Sweet Daddy Hate is offline
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Something like that is needed.

If you served your time and were released then you payed your debt back to society and it really shouldn't matter anymore.

If a person can't be trusted to contribute to society after prison through a job, then why even release them?

Otherwise we just create a second class citizenship of ex cons who can't find employment to better their lives. Wonder what happens to someone out of prison who doesn't find employment? Welfare? Steal? Deal drugs?

Stopping people from gaining employment after prison is one of the worst ideas a society can have.

Of course, republicans and their corporate masters love to have a exploitable second class tier of workers to underpay in crappy jobs.

Also, the War on Drugs turns productive members of society into felons. Someone busted for pot I(anything over half an ounce is a felon) at 22 shouldn't have that affect their employment 10 years later.
So much This.

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Old 06-23-2013, 02:41 PM   #68
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Criminal records should be expunged after 5 years if the individual has committed no more crimes.
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It's a great idea and should be implemented by force if necessary.
Obvious troll attempt. Nobody is really this stupid.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:42 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
In the last case I read that dealt with this, the holding essentially said that blacks make up 10% of the populace but 35% of felony convictions, as such, refusing to hire convicted felons creates a disparate impact on the hiring of black applicants and as such, businesses cannot refuse to hire based on felony convictions.
What the administration is doing is making sociological argument more than a legal one. (even if there's bad law that relies on the same type of arguments. ) It's social engineering. By doing so it keeps the stereotype about blacks going. That's where this harms blacks and creates more resentment to worsen race relations. That this is happening under an administration that's lead by a black person keeps the stereotype going even more because it shows others have to change to accommodate them. Blacks leaders need to encourage blacks to change. This is what would do away with the stereotype. But also by doing so, they would have more opportunity, they'd have more self-esteem because each individual in that group would have accomplished it on their own. Many of them have. There's always going to be a few bad apples, but when it's more than a few...well, then something in their culture needs to be addressed instead of using that they're victims.


Besides, no longer having a felony conviction doesn't mean that person is ethical and productive. Not everything unethical is illegal or a crime. What if the person, calls in sick on too many Fridays when they're not for instance? Sure they can fired but the hiring process takes time which is money too.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:43 PM   #70
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Another is, how is this any different than companies not hiring someone because they didn't have a college education even when a job doesn't require the knowledge from that education. There are employers who use that simply because they feel it makes a better employee. Someone who can persist on a path despite any difficulty on it.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:46 PM   #71
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You do realize that the entire technology industry relies on indirect government subsidy in order to function, right?
So what's right about that?
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:46 PM   #72
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The ACLU will win this kind of thing; they always do.
Link?
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:47 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Something like that is needed.

If you served your time and were released then you payed your debt back to society and it really shouldn't matter anymore.

If a person can't be trusted to contribute to society after prison through a job, then why even release them?

Otherwise we just create a second class citizenship of ex cons who can't find employment to better their lives. Wonder what happens to someone out of prison who doesn't find employment? Welfare? Steal? Deal drugs?

Stopping people from gaining employment after prison is one of the worst ideas a society can have.

Of course, republicans and their corporate masters love to have a exploitable second class tier of workers to underpay in crappy jobs.

Also, the War on Drugs turns productive members of society into felons. Someone busted for pot I(anything over half an ounce is a felon) at 22 shouldn't have that affect their employment 10 years later.
You don't have to meet some character requirement to get released from prison.

And, yeah, those evil business owners. How dare they decide they'd rather not allow a person with a felony conviction to have access to store assets, cash, secure information, etc.

I like how people not paying the payroll expense, and not allowing others to have access to company assets, are so willing to say whether or not a business owner should or shouldn't consider a prior conviction in the hiring process.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:48 PM   #74
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Criminal records should be expunged after 5 years if the individual has committed no more crimes.
That's too short.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:50 PM   #75
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I don't know how a record could be expunged anyway. A third party could just compile the data and charge businesses for the background check.
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