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Old 06-22-2013, 06:03 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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The Iranians and Al-Quaeda fighting proxy war. Why would we want to stop that?

I'm confused on two points.

  1. If you kill 90K+ human beings with bullets, we will let it go. But, if you kill <200 with chemical weapons...... we are going to care now.
  2. Why in the **** in a million years would we arm groups that are publicly supporting Al-Quaeda just because they are Anti-Assad/Iranian?
Best guess I can come up with from reading the tea leaves is...............

  1. Because we publicly created a line in the sand, they crossed it. Lesson learned........... don't draw lines in the sand. Don't try to get me to buy into the moral authority angle. 90K died before we acted.
  2. The only theory that makes any sense is that our "friends" asked/pressured us to do this. The Saudi's, Jordainians, the Royals of Quatar, Kuwait etc. are worried about Iranian influence expanding in the ME.


I'm going to be with BE on this. We need to stay the **** out of Syria.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:28 PM   #31
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Not my choice or plan. Just saying that looks like the unspoken plan........ and it seems to be working...........if it was the plan.
Give Syrians more means with which they can slaughter each other.

You started the thread. You asked why we'd want to stop it.

Well, that's why.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:32 PM   #32
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Yepper. Whsts better than one muslim offing another muslim ? Rock on
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:40 PM   #33
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wtf?

bill clinton is a "real" leader!
No shit! If he would have taken out Bin Laden when given the chances when he was in office probably no occurrence of 9/11.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:06 PM   #34
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Give Syrians more means with which they can slaughter each other.

You started the thread. You asked why we'd want to stop it.

Well, that's why.
they want to slaughter each other, that's really none of our business. We give them arms to slaughter each other, that's on us. We have skin in the game.

I'm not going to shed any tears for people dying that would if given the chance, kill Americans for no reason other than they are Americans. But, as is the case in all war, innocents are killed. If we helped that happened, that's also on us.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:41 PM   #35
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
they want to slaughter each other, that's really none of our business. We give them arms to slaughter each other, that's on us. We have skin in the game.

I'm not going to shed any tears for people dying that would if given the chance, kill Americans for no reason other than they are Americans. But, as is the case in all war, innocents are killed. If we helped that happened, that's also on us.
Fine, you don't have to sob for opposition troops who harbor violent intentions against the West. I sure don't.

But how about the shit ton of the opposition that doesn't? There's like 1,000 opposition groups. Let's talk civilians. Or how basically the people fighting for Assad do so to feed their families -- you want to guess how well conscientious objection goes over under Assad? I'll give you three tries.

It's a ton more complex than you're making it, of course. Pretending like either of us have the answers here is a fool's errand. If there is a way to get this situation under control, it's to somehow get these opposition groups to form a legitimate council that can take over during a post-Assad Syria, then take aggressive action a la Libya to neuter Assad's forces.

Or, you can sit back and let nature work its course. But that would mean, essentially, that Assad wins, since it's almost certain Russia will not allow one of their most reliable customers to go down, and Hezbollah and Iran will continue funneling support.

The worst of both worlds? Provide the opposition insufficient aid for victory, but good enough to kill a whole bunch of Syrians, many of them innocent, to weaken a couple enemies who we've already pretty much got cornered.

And boom, sure enough, that's what we're doing.

Brilliant.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
If there is a way to get this situation under control, it's to somehow get these opposition groups to form a legitimate council that can take over during a post-Assad Syria, then take aggressive action a la Libya to neuter Assad's forces.
The largest and most powerful factions battling Assad's regime is Al-Aqueda loyalists. You really think we can motivate Al-Quaeda to work with us and then the other factions? And WTF would we do that?

And why would we get more involved? We don't need to get into it with Russia. Putin would just love that to motivate his base.

We stood by while millions died in Africa. We paid lip service, did some good things but we could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. We didn't.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:36 AM   #37
BigMeatballDave BigMeatballDave is offline
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**** them all.

I really wish our government would focus on this country instead of others.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:41 AM   #38
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
The largest and most powerful factions battling Assad's regime is Al-Aqueda loyalists. You really think we can motivate Al-Quaeda to work with us and then the other factions? And WTF would we do that?
We've got no choice. There are something like 1,000 groups vying for power, and the Syrian people want a voice.

Do something to try to get these groups together for an interim government that can set up elections a la Libya or Egypt. You've got to try -- standing aside without trying to make any diplomatic process because "it's too hard" defeats the very purpose of diplomacy.

You may or may not get anything done. But you've got to try.
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