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Old 06-25-2013, 02:29 AM  
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John Bolton mulling 2016 bid...

Bolton Plans a Tour of Early-Primary States
By Robert Costa
June 24, 2013 8:07 PM

Watch out, Rand Paul.

As Paul, a Kentucky senator, plans for a 2016 presidential run, he is talking up his views on foreign policy, which, broadly speaking, include less intervention in foreign conflicts and a smaller military budget.

But Paul’s positions and rapid ascent have alarmed many Republican hawks. Behind the scenes, they’re worried that he has a shot at the nomination.

Enter John Bolton. Bolton, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, is being encouraged by several leading conservative power brokers to consider a presidential bid.

Bolton, who briefly considered running for president in 2012, hasn’t made up his mind. But sources tell me that he is moving closer to giving the idea serious consideration — serious enough to travel to Iowa and New Hampshire.

Later this year and throughout 2014, the former Reagan and Bush official will begin an informal national tour. He’ll give speeches, huddle with GOP leaders, and push back against the party’s libertarian shift. He’ll make the case for a muscular foreign policy.

Sources say Bolton is also planning to launch a few related groups that will help elevate his argument and his national profile. Whether the efforts evolve into a presidential campaign in a couple years is unclear, but Bolton is, without a doubt, looking to be a player.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...s-robert-costa
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:14 PM   #31
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No you're not. You can't possibly vote Obama and call yourself fiscally conservative. Nope, not allowed.
He's a joke, when he says something like that. He agreed with the very idea of the federal govt more spending money during a recession.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:33 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
And what? Obama didn't "speak out" in favor of him strongly enough? As if pounding his fist would have made the least bit of difference. Unless you're saying he should have sent the US military in to keep the Egyptian people from getting rid of their corrupt dictator (the real kind, not the pretend "Obama is a corrupt dictator" kind).

I realize he was OUR corrupt dictator and it would be better to have Mubarak in there. But, reasonably, WTF was Obama going to do to have a different outcome?
If the Obama administration hadn't abandoned the Mubarack government, going so far as to publicly call on him to step down, but instead had remained publicly neutral while giving the military assurances that we remained supportive, I don't believe Mubarack would have been toppled. The military was strong enough to protect him. But when they see their primary benefactor backing the other side, their leadership recognizes that their own skins are at stake.

In any event, Obama has a long, troublesome record of being tough/antagonistic toward those who have worked with us while being soft on those who stand up to us. That's a recipe for the kinds of problems we now face with Syria, Iran, Aghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, and the list goes on and on.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:45 PM   #33
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I agree that if Bolton runs, it's not because he expects to win the nomination or the Presidency. But I think his motives are more about pulling the eventual nominee in his direction on foreign policy. If no one from the pro-American, assertive foreign policy wing of the party runs on those issues, there will be little reason for a Rand Paul to come off of his preferred isolationist approach to the world. More importantly, it will prevent other Republican candidates from moving toward Rand Paul's position for political reasons.

He made noise about running in the last election, but in the end he decided that Mitt Romney was willing enough to make foreign policy an issue and to promote the type of foreign policy ideas that Bolton champions. Indeed, Romney brought Bolton on as an adviser in exchange for his endorsement.
Care to explain? His views on foreign policy are much more assertive than his fathers. Hell, he even voted for sanctions on Iran even though sanctions have never proven to be effective at influencing behavior. He has also stated that an attack on Israel should be treated as an attack on America.

Many of the purist libertarians refuse to support Rand Paul because of his foreign policy. I think that's a good thing because it is better for him to not be associated with a lot of the kooks that followed his dad. His foreign policy is probably more in-line with the general population's than anyone else's.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:52 PM   #34
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China is also experiencing trouble with radical islamists. As is Canada. But I'm sure you can rationalize those with your preconceived notions, too.

Read the great book, The Looming Tower, to learn about the origins of islamist attitudes toward the West. They really do hate us for our freedoms and the decadence that that freedom permits. If we were to adopt the near total isolationism of pre-1970s China, maybe they'd leave us alone, but merely withdrawing our troops from their lands won't do it as long as we continue to try to do business with their ruling class and let our culture "contaminate" theirs.
How do you explain that 95% of suicide bombers come from countries we occupy?
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
Care to explain? His views on foreign policy are much more assertive than his fathers. Hell, he even voted for sanctions on Iran even though sanctions have never proven to be effective at influencing behavior. He has also stated that an attack on Israel should be treated as an attack on America.

Many of the purist libertarians refuse to support Rand Paul because of his foreign policy. I think that's a good thing because it is better for him to not be associated with a lot of the kooks that followed his dad. His foreign policy is probably more in-line with the general population's than anyone else's.
I think that's evidence of Rand's ambition, but maybe it represents his true values. Either way, that kind of pragmatism is what I'm talking about. If no one presents a case for the Bolton side of the foreign policy argument, there will be no pressure for Rand to make any concessions in that direction in order to harvest votes across the spectrum of the Republican party.

He may not be as pure as his father on these issues, but he's still at the far neo-isolationist side of the foreign policy spectrum relative to the people who are likely to seek the nomination, just as Bolton would be at the far globally assertive side.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If the Obama administration hadn't abandoned the Mubarack government, going so far as to publicly call on him to step down, but instead had remained publicly neutral while giving the military assurances that we remained supportive, I don't believe Mubarack would have been toppled. The military was strong enough to protect him. But when they see their primary benefactor backing the other side, their leadership recognizes that their own skins are at stake.
Wow. Just a few mere words from Obama, "We remain supportive." And a revolution would have been turned back. I mean, come ooooonnnn...these are BEP-level assertions.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:11 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Wow. Just a few mere words from Obama, "We remain supportive." And a revolution would have been turned back. I mean, come ooooonnnn...these are BEP-level assertions.
I've got to admit that you're right, given that we've learned that Obama's words are about as hollow and meaningless as they can be. My theory was based on an alternative universe where the leader of the free world is prepared to back up his words with concrete actions.

BTW, whatever happened to the left's infatuation with diplomacy? Now you characterize it as "mere words"?
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:15 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Wow. Just a few mere words from Obama, "We remain supportive." And a revolution would have been turned back. I mean, come ooooonnnn...these are BEP-level assertions.
Look no further than Syria and Iran where Obama stood on the sidelines and the revolutions have (thusfar) failed. Meanwhile, in Libya, Egypt and Tunisia, Obama sided with the rebels and all of those governments fell. I sense a pattern. Unfortunately, it's a disturbing pattern that goes back to my initial comment about Obama, our allies, and our adversaries.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:36 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I've got to admit that you're right, given that we've learned that Obama's words are about as hollow and meaningless as they can be. My theory was based on an alternative universe where the leader of the free world is prepared to back up his words with concrete actions.

BTW, whatever happened to the left's infatuation with diplomacy? Now you characterize it as "mere words"?
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Look no further than Syria and Iran where Obama stood on the sidelines and the revolutions have (thusfar) failed. Meanwhile, in Libya, Egypt and Tunisia, Obama sided with the rebels and all of those governments fell. I sense a pattern. Unfortunately, it's a disturbing pattern that goes back to my initial comment about Obama, our allies, and our adversaries.
Your theory is based on an altenative universe, all right. One where the US president simply snaps his fingers (or simply voices his preference) and his wish comes true.

The level of interference you are advocating, in virtually every country, appears to be completely unprecedented (not to mention the level of success you appear to expect). W Bush and Cheney would think you are overdoing it. John Bolton would tell you to take it back a notch.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:44 PM   #40
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Bolton won't hurt Rand he will take away votes from the other neocons. Besidea Bolton supports gay marriage so that makes him unelectable in the GOP
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:06 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
Care to explain? His views on foreign policy are much more assertive than his fathers. Hell, he even voted for sanctions on Iran even though sanctions have never proven to be effective at influencing behavior. He has also stated that an attack on Israel should be treated as an attack on America.

Many of the purist libertarians refuse to support Rand Paul because of his foreign policy. I think that's a good thing because it is better for him to not be associated with a lot of the kooks that followed his dad. His foreign policy is probably more in-line with the general population's than anyone else's.
Yeah, patteeu is confusing the two. Rand is more in line with the FP Realist camp.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:06 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
He may not be as pure as his father on these issues, but he's still at the far neo-isolationist side of the foreign policy spectrum relative to the people who are likely to seek the nomination, just as Bolton would be at the far globally assertive side.
A truly progressive claim. Afterall, it was the progressive left interventionists back in early 20th century that coined the word to shut down debate for where America was to go.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Your theory is based on an altenative universe, all right. One where the US president simply snaps his fingers (or simply voices his preference) and his wish comes true.

The level of interference you are advocating, in virtually every country, appears to be completely unprecedented (not to mention the level of success you appear to expect). W Bush and Cheney would think you are overdoing it. John Bolton would tell you to take it back a notch.
Yeah, right. We're just a leaf adrift on the currents of time with no ability to influence the direction of events.

I'm not advocating any more interference than we've traditionally practiced in Egypt. I'm just arguing that Obama shouldn't have abandoned what worked for several decades.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:59 PM   #44
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Yeah, patteeu is confusing the two. Rand is more in line with the FP Realist camp.
No, there's no confusion here.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:17 PM   #45
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Nope. And your comments also make you look more neo con that you claim not to be.
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