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Old 06-25-2013, 01:29 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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John Bolton mulling 2016 bid...

Bolton Plans a Tour of Early-Primary States
By Robert Costa
June 24, 2013 8:07 PM

Watch out, Rand Paul.

As Paul, a Kentucky senator, plans for a 2016 presidential run, he is talking up his views on foreign policy, which, broadly speaking, include less intervention in foreign conflicts and a smaller military budget.

But Paul’s positions and rapid ascent have alarmed many Republican hawks. Behind the scenes, they’re worried that he has a shot at the nomination.

Enter John Bolton. Bolton, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, is being encouraged by several leading conservative power brokers to consider a presidential bid.

Bolton, who briefly considered running for president in 2012, hasn’t made up his mind. But sources tell me that he is moving closer to giving the idea serious consideration — serious enough to travel to Iowa and New Hampshire.

Later this year and throughout 2014, the former Reagan and Bush official will begin an informal national tour. He’ll give speeches, huddle with GOP leaders, and push back against the party’s libertarian shift. He’ll make the case for a muscular foreign policy.

Sources say Bolton is also planning to launch a few related groups that will help elevate his argument and his national profile. Whether the efforts evolve into a presidential campaign in a couple years is unclear, but Bolton is, without a doubt, looking to be a player.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...s-robert-costa
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:20 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think that's evidence of Rand's ambition, but maybe it represents his true values. Either way, that kind of pragmatism is what I'm talking about. If no one presents a case for the Bolton side of the foreign policy argument, there will be no pressure for Rand to make any concessions in that direction in order to harvest votes across the spectrum of the Republican party.

He may not be as pure as his father on these issues, but he's still at the far neo-isolationist side of the foreign policy spectrum relative to the people who are likely to seek the nomination, just as Bolton would be at the far globally assertive side.
I think the point of Rand's candidacy is to ditch the militaristically insane leg of the Republican party in favor of a much more measured foreign policy.

I would be very comfortable with a Rand vs. Bolton debate, and ultimately believe that Bolton's small constituency would abandon the Republican party in favor of the Democrat candidate - who just might be Chris Christie the way things are going.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:04 PM   #47
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whoever we get to vote for, well, that will be decided by the elite.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:25 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope. And your comments also make you look more neo con that you claim not to be.
I never really know what you mean by neocon. Your definitions shift all over the place. I'm not a new deal liberal turned conservative over the Cold War. I'm not a Jewish intellectual. Spreading democracy isn't a central focus of my foreign policy views. These are several key distinctions between myself and people who have labeled neocon legitimately. OTOH, I share Ronald Reagan's peace through strength philosophy and his willingness to use US power and influence abroad to serve American interests, so if that makes us neocon, so be it.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:28 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I think the point of Rand's candidacy is to ditch the militaristically insane leg of the Republican party in favor of a much more measured foreign policy.

I would be very comfortable with a Rand vs. Bolton debate, and ultimately believe that Bolton's small constituency would abandon the Republican party in favor of the Democrat candidate - who just might be Chris Christie the way things are going.
I think you're overly optimistic about how willing the Republican Party is to retreat from the world. I'm sure that the following Rand could develop is greater than it would have been 10 years ago, but I don't think we're where you want us to be.
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think you're overly optimistic about how willing the Republican Party is to retreat from the world. I'm sure that the following Rand could develop is greater than it would have been 10 years ago, but I don't think we're where you want us to be.
I think the majority of Republicans are much closer to Rand Paul than Bolton. I think many people have confused Ronald Reagan's Peace through Strength as Peace through War. Bolton type Republicans like to ignore the fact that 95% of suicide bombers come from countries we occupy. There has to be a correlation between occupation and radicalization. Islamic extremist leaders may hate us for our freedoms, but the driving force for their recruitment is our occupation of their land.
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:42 PM   #51
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Ideally, I would like to see our air force, marines, and army pared back to just a small number of professional officers with the bulk of the forces being national guard part time units. The only fully professional branch should be the Navy because a strong top of the line Navy could stop any invasion cold.

This is also the genius of the 2nd amendment. With an armed populace, it may just to much for a country to actually occupy America. The whole a rifle behind every blade of grass idea.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:00 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think you're overly optimistic about how willing the Republican Party is to retreat from the world. I'm sure that the following Rand could develop is greater than it would have been 10 years ago, but I don't think we're where you want us to be.
That's a strawman patteeu. He didn't say retreat from the world. In fact his words were more specific than how you reframed it.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:02 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I never really know what you mean by neocon.
I know and that's convenient for you too.

Quote:
Your definitions shift all over the place.
Nope I have two. The original ones who are liberal/progressive hawks. Then those who take on their color using their thoughts and words on FP ( and a few other things). Taking on the color of one is just plain being a NeoCon. That's pretty simple.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:09 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
I think the majority of Republicans are much closer to Rand Paul than Bolton. I think many people have confused Ronald Reagan's Peace through Strength as Peace through War. Bolton type Republicans like to ignore the fact that 95% of suicide bombers come from countries we occupy. There has to be a correlation between occupation and radicalization. Islamic extremist leaders may hate us for our freedoms, but the driving force for their recruitment is our occupation of their land.
Given that the only two countries we've occupied in the past couple of decades have been countries in which we've been at war, it's natural that a large number of suicide bombers would come from those two countries. I'm not sure about the 95% number, but the actual number doesn't really matter much. There are plenty of suicide bombers in countries we don't occupy too. But Bolton type Republicans don't ignore that.

I don't disagree with you too much about the difference between the leaders and their recruits though. The leaders and their anti-Western ideology isn't based on our presence in the region, but they do use it as a recruiting tool. No doubt about that.

I completely disagree with you about the Peace through Strength versus Peace through War nonsense though. Part of the magic of peace through strength is the credible threat that you'll use that strength if you're pushed too far. There's not a sliver of difference between Reagan and Bolton on this. And I also disagree with you about where the majority of Republicans are.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:28 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think you're overly optimistic about how willing the Republican Party is to retreat from the world. I'm sure that the following Rand could develop is greater than it would have been 10 years ago, but I don't think we're where you want us to be.
I don't think the Republican party has any desire to retreat from the world. I do, however, believe that it's ready to start being more measured about sending kids to die in Islamic civil wars.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:32 PM   #56
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I don't think the Republican party has any desire to retreat from the world. I do, however, believe that it's ready to start being more measured about sending kids to die.
The Republican party hasn't been unmeasured about sending kids to die. There's no national mood for a ground war anytime soon, though, and that's reflected by the Republican Party. I'll give you that.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:35 PM   #57
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The Republican party hasn't been unmeasured about sending kids to die.
If that were true, we'd be saluting President McCain right now instead of President Hope and Change.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:41 PM   #58
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If that were true, we'd be saluting President McCain right now instead of President Hope and Change.
You don't think the economy had something to do with the 2008 election?
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:46 PM   #59
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You don't think the economy had something to do with the 2008 election?
John McCain didn't understand economic s nor did obama. McCain supported unpopular wars and hired sarah palin. The people trusted obama more. Thats how politicians get elected.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:47 PM   #60
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Btw the whole "paling around with terrorist" thing made McCain look desperate.
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