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Old 06-27-2013, 09:17 AM  
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Uncle Lamar Wants to Abolish the Minimum Wage

Because those Wal Mart workers are overpaid, damn it! This guy is the ranking GOP member of the Senate Labor Committee. Wow....

http://tinyurl.com/omaxldm

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), the ranking Republican on the Senate's labor committee, said in a hearing Tuesday that he would prefer to see the minimum wage abolished.

Alexander's declaration came amid a back-and-forth between a witness from the conservative Heritage Foundation and Sens. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). The trio had been debating what kind of impact a higher minimum wage would have on a theoretical worker, and it seemed Sanders wanted to know whether the witness opposed raising the minimum wage or having a minimum wage at all.

"There are some conservatives who do not believe in the concept of the minimum wage," Sanders said to the witness, James Sherk, a labor policy analyst at the think tank.

"Let me jump in," Alexander then said. "I do not believe in it."

The policy debate had been lively, with interruptions all around, and Sanders grew excited at Alexander's interjection.

"So we have a ranking member," Sanders responded. "Alright! There we go!"
Sanders turned to Alexander.

"So you do not believe in the concept of the minimum wage?"

"That's correct," Alexander responded.

"You would abolish the minimum wage?"

"Correct."

"And if someone had to work for two bucks an hour," Sanders continued, "they would work for two bucks an hour?"

Alexander went on to compare a higher minimum wage to a form of welfare. Instead of boosting it, as Congress is now considering, he suggested a common conservative alternative to a federal wage floor -- a higher earned-income tax credit.

"No, I would go for a much more targeted approach," Alexander said. "The question I want to ask, if we are interested in social justice, and we want to honor work instead of getting a welfare check, then wouldn't a more efficient way to help people in poverty be to increase the earned-income tax credit rather than do what we always do here, which is come up with a big idea and send the bill to somebody else? What we're doing is coming up with the big idea and sending the bill to the employer.

"Why don't we just pay for the big ideas we come up with," he continued. "And if we want to create a standard of living for people that's much higher than what they have today, then let's attach the dollars to the job and everybody pay for it. I don't want to do that. But if we were going to do it, then I think that's the way we should do it."

"That's a very interesting discussion for another time," Sanders said with a slight laugh.

Sanders then turned back to Sherk and asked him if he'd support a bill sponsored by Alexander abolishing the minimum wage.

"I believe the minimum wage hurts its intended beneficiaries," Sherk responded. "I do not support the concept of the minimum wage."

"I appreciate your honesty," Sanders replied.
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:14 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
That must be why the Grinch twisted the arms of new Republican freshman in office to pass the Clinton tax increase. He's no conservative and has said so, in private quarters to other conservatives. He's a Rockefeller Republican.
Go educate yourself: http://spectator.org/archives/2011/1...gingrich/print
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:35 AM   #227
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Just the words "Abolish the Minimum Wage". Just... how does anyone believe they could possibly sell that to the people.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:07 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Newt Gingrich was actually the last fiscal conservative, but I'm not certain what Ike has to do with Obama's policies which largely mirror Jimmy Carter's. Carter was a total failure, and America isn't going back to those days if we can avoid it. That's why the GOP keeps winning the House. Americans don't trust Obama's policies.
The GOP has won only one presidential election in the last 20 years, but keep telling yourself this.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:09 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Cut and paste is all loneiguana has at this point.
Attacking evidence instead of proving her own is all BEP has.

No evidence. No Data. No countries to point too.

BEP promotes an economic religion.

/everything you know was told you by someone else. The only people who attack citing or sharing where the information comes from are stupid people who don't have facts on their side.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:27 AM   #230
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More evidence:

Tax Cuts Don't Lead to Economic Growth, a New 65-Year Study Finds

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...-finds/262438/



Quote:
Analysis of six decades of data found that top tax rates "have had little association with saving, investment, or productivity growth." However, the study found that reductions of capital gains taxes and top marginal rate taxes have led to greater income inequality. Past studies cited in the report have suggested that a broad-based tax rate reduction can have "a small to modest, positive effect on economic growth" or "no effect on economic growth."

Well into the 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was above 90%. Today it's 35%. But both real GDP and real per capita GDP were growing more than twice as fast in the 1950s as in the 2000s. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the top tenth of a percent fell from about 50% to 25% in the last 60 years, while their share of income increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% before the recession
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:33 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The GOP has won only one presidential election in the last 20 years, but keep telling yourself this.
And yet there the GOP is, winning the House the vast majority of that time, and have big leads across the country at the state level too. Te Dems have won less than 50% of all Prez votes that last 20 years anyway so they ain't exactly racking up any Reagan type wins. The only one with a sizeable win was 2008 and within two years he had his party killed in the midterms, he was so hated
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:20 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Attacking evidence instead of proving her own is all BEP has.
What? A chart showing a huge growth in food stamps? That's evidence against you. You have odd criteria—socialist criteria.

Quote:
No evidence. No Data. No countries to point too.
Nope. You ignored the evidence and then call it no evidence by making the false claim of calling it invalid criteria because it was not a "country."

You got owned with my post on specific economic data on Hong Kong. You want to rely on a macro economic model, which leans socialist. Markets are not uniform over large areas—they vary. Micro economics is more Austrian economics. Regions have different markets. That's what my evidence is based on. But you wouldn't understand those distinctions, as well as supply and demand.

I gave you plenty of evidence including that we had no minimum wage at all for over a hundred years. That was in a country—a large one— America. Also the 1920's depression, the gilded age, the early days of our republic—all in a country.

Then your opinion-makers did not really even address some of the things I claimed, relied on generalities in places and you even ignored that I stated earlier that the 19th century was not fully-free market, had some mercantilism but was just much freer than now. YOU can't even understand what I am saying on certain economic points. This has got to be why you use so many strawman arguments. You don't have a good enough grasp of economics to understand what is even being said.

All you need is to isolate markets in an area or a period of time. You ever hear of a pilot? Ya' know where you can test something on a smaller scale? Yeah, well that's what those could be....only some of those times and markets are bigger than that.

Quote:
BEP promotes an economic religion.
Nope. Based on what happens. I see you can't even be original here because you now even steal my own words. So not only do you like policies that "steal" from others....you have no compunction stealing others ides. The fact is you believe in the religion of the state. It's your savior. I believe in freedom—not heavy govt control over my economic life. Get it right.

Quote:
/everything you know was told you by someone else.
This is more true of you, since I've worked longer than you, have had to compete by having my own business. You're just a grad student. How's the Ivory Tower of ideas that don't work in the real world. It was from that experience I evolved from liberal democrat to free-market, limited govt person.

Quote:
The only people who attack citing or sharing where the information comes from are stupid people who don't have facts on their side.
I see you're using your favorite logical fallacy—the strawman again. I was referring to your using the opinions of others ( which had irrelevant facts and little economic data) many of your cut-and-pastes.

It's also obvious, using my own observation of your posts, that you have NO idea how supply and demand works. So you are unable to think critically using that toward any political policy. I can. I used my mainly to show factual data and source them. Like what the Russian health care system and others were actually like by someone who lived it. I also cited my own experience with it in Europe. Other than that, I wrote plenty in my own words....much of it from experience. You mainly need someone else's opinion to do your talking instead of parsing a post on economics.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The GOP has won only one presidential election in the last 20 years, but keep telling yourself this.
I'd rather have the House anyway. It has more power than a president, as it was designed to, and that's because they have the power of the purse. That helped Clinton look good.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:18 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
More evidence:

Tax Cuts Don't Lead to Economic Growth, a New 65-Year Study Finds

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...-finds/262438/

Yeah because tax cuts are the only thing that government does to try and control economic activity.

You ever think that my objection to taxes has nothing to do with an economic argument rather then that the rates of taxation (federal, state, county, city) in the US amounts to theft? That the government is stealing money from its citizens (both in taxes and inflation) to pay for things that it shouldn't or have no business doing.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:27 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Yeah because tax cuts are the only thing that government does to try and control economic activity.

You ever think that my objection to taxes has nothing to do with an economic argument rather then that the rates of taxation (federal, state, county, city) in the US amounts to theft? That the government is stealing money from its citizens (both in taxes and inflation) to pay for things that it shouldn't or have no business doing.


So you object to Taxes because you are stupid.

Or because you are a lazy moocher who wants all the luxury society provides without wanting to pay your share.

Either way, this picture makes more sense then the stupid belief that taxes are theft.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:45 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
What? A chart showing a huge growth in food stamps? That's evidence against you. You have odd criteria—socialist criteria.
You don't have facts on your side again. The huge growth is due to the last 30 years of people getting poor thanks to the policies you support.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ps-now/258794/
Quote:
There is no question that the food stamp program is expensive and growing. Enrollment in the federal Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), as it's officially called, increased 70 percent between 2007 and 2011. Annual spending more than doubled to an all-time-high of $78 billion. It's now the second largest welfare program behind Medicaid, which cost the federal government about $275 billion last year.

But here are a few facts to keep in mind. According to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, the food stamp program's growth "has been driven primarily by the weak economy." About 65 percent of the increased spending was the result of people simply getting poorer. Another 20 percent was due to the stimulus act, which boosted the maximum benefit at a time when the recession was absolutely grinding up vulnerable families. As the CBO notes, there have been no -- I repeat no -- significant legislative changes to who is eligible since Obama took office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope. You ignored the evidence and then call it no evidence by making the false claim of calling it invalid criteria because it was not a "country."

You got owned with my post on specific economic data on Hong Kong. You want to rely on a macro economic model, which leans socialist. Markets are not uniform over large areas—they vary. Micro economics is more Austrian economics. Regions have different markets. That's what my evidence is based on. But you wouldn't understand those distinctions, as well as supply and demand.

I gave you plenty of evidence including that we had no minimum wage at all for over a hundred years. That was in a country—a large one— America. Also the 1920's depression, the gilded age, the early days of our republic—all in a country.

You gave me evidence for a single city that achieved its status while under the rule of the British Empire.

The U.S. had numerous social programs from the start. Land Grants. Railroad Grants. Welfare hospitals. All this was covered in the salon article. The U.S. is not an example.

Minimum wage since the 1930's. Great evidence that the Minimum wage does not have a negative effect on the economy because the period since then has had one of the growths in the middle class.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Then your opinion-makers did not really even address some of the things I claimed, relied on generalities in places and you even ignored that I stated earlier that the 19th century was not fully-free market, had some mercantilism but was just much freer than now. YOU can't even understand what I am saying on certain economic points. This has got to be why you use so many strawman arguments. You don't have a good enough grasp of economics to understand what is even being said.

The U.S. had more than what you want to call "mercantilism". I understand what you are saying, its just wrong.

I know you don't have any evidence. So you have opinions, I have facts. Your history revisionism isn't going to change the facts. You still don't know what straw man means,

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
All you need is to isolate markets in an area or a period of time. You ever hear of a pilot? Ya' know where you can test something on a smaller scale? Yeah, well that's what those could be....only some of those times and markets are bigger than that.
Okay, so where is this evidence?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope. Based on what happens. I see you can't even be original here because you now even steal my own words. So not only do you like policies that "steal" from others....you have no compunction stealing others ides. The fact is you believe in the religion of the state. It's your savior. I believe in freedom—not heavy govt control over my economic life. Get it right.
I have evidence. You don't.

But I sure your Faith in your beliefs will matter.

Taxes aren't stealing. Only stupid people brainwashed by corporate plutocrats believe such a stupid thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
This is more true of you, since I've worked longer than you, have had to compete by having my own business. You're just a grad student. How's the Ivory Tower of ideas that don't work in the real world. It was from that experience I evolved from liberal democrat to free-market, limited govt person.
Okay.

If it doesn't work in the real world, then why do I have all the facts and evidence, while you don't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I see you're using your favorite logical fallacy—the strawman again. I was referring to your using the opinions of others ( which had irrelevant facts and little economic data) many of your cut-and-pastes.

It's also obvious, using my own observation of your posts, that you have NO idea how supply and demand works. So you are unable to think critically using that toward any political policy. I can. I used my mainly to show factual data and source them. Like what the Russian health care system and others were actually like by someone who lived it. I also cited my own experience with it in Europe. Other than that, I wrote plenty in my own words....much of it from experience. You mainly need someone else's opinion to do your talking instead of parsing a post on economics.
I see you are using your favorite arguing tactic again. Appeal to logical fallacy (Even though there isn't one), attack, and lie instead of providing data for your own views.

Oh wait, you don't have any actual data to provide.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:46 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
And yet there the GOP is, winning the House the vast majority of that time, and have big leads across the country at the state level too. Te Dems have won less than 50% of all Prez votes that last 20 years anyway so they ain't exactly racking up any Reagan type wins. The only one with a sizeable win was 2008 and within two years he had his party killed in the midterms, he was so hated
3 our of 4 popular votes in 20 years.

Spin it any way you want.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:56 AM   #238
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More evidence:

4. Summary and conclusions
This whirlwind review of minimum wage effects since 1938 confirms President Roosevelt’s view that the FLSA was both far-reaching and far-sighted. Minimum wage policy helped to eliminate the downward pattern of money wages in the 1930s, thereby removing one of the forces that had deepened and prolonged the Great Depression. In the immediate postwar decades, minimum wage increases were important in creating shared prosperity. In more recent decades, minimum wages have not kept up with inflation, but hey nonetheless have increased low-wage workers’ pay without creating negative employment effects.

I do not have here the space to discuss studies that have examined its other major effects, such as on poverty and pay inequality. Suffice it to say that careful studies show hat the minimum wage reduces both (Dube 2013; Autor, Manning and Smith 2010). A recent poll of high-ranking economists in all fields showed that a significant plurality now support minimum wage increases. Put together with other polling studies, it seems clear that economists as a group, who were once more likely to oppose minimum wages, are now much more likely to support minimum wage increases.

The Great Recession and the subsequent weak job market recovery have eliminated and endangered millions of middle class jobs. In this new era, young workers can no longer count so much on minimum wage jobs as stepping stones into middle class careers. And middle class workers are increasingly looking at minimum wage rates as key reference points for their own level of economic security. This new context makes the case for minimum wage increases as compelling as ever.

http://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Reich1.pdf
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:32 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You don't have facts on your side again. The huge growth is due to the last 30 years of people getting poor thanks to the policies you support.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ps-now/258794/
You gave me evidence for a single city that achieved its status while under the rule of the British Empire.

The U.S. had numerous social programs from the start. Land Grants. Railroad Grants. Welfare hospitals. All this was covered in the salon article. The U.S. is not an example.

Minimum wage since the 1930's. Great evidence that the Minimum wage does not have a negative effect on the economy because the period since then has had one of the growths in the middle class.

The U.S. had more than what you want to call "mercantilism". I understand what you are saying, its just wrong.

I know you don't have any evidence. So you have opinions, I have facts. Your history revisionism isn't going to change the facts. You still don't know what straw man means,

Okay, so where is this evidence?

I have evidence. You don't.

But I sure your Faith in your beliefs will matter.

Taxes aren't stealing. Only stupid people brainwashed by corporate plutocrats believe such a stupid thing.
Okay.

If it doesn't work in the real world, then why do I have all the facts and evidence, while you don't?
I see you are using your favorite arguing tactic again. Appeal to logical fallacy (Even though there isn't one), attack, and lie instead of providing data for your own views.

Oh wait, you don't have any actual data to provide.
NOPE.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:33 AM   #240
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $6230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post

So you object to Taxes because you are stupid.

Or because you are a lazy moocher who wants all the luxury society provides without wanting to pay your share.

Either way, this picture makes more sense then the stupid belief that taxes are theft.
Logical Fallacies. EPIC Fail.
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BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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