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Old 06-27-2013, 09:17 AM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Uncle Lamar Wants to Abolish the Minimum Wage

Because those Wal Mart workers are overpaid, damn it! This guy is the ranking GOP member of the Senate Labor Committee. Wow....

http://tinyurl.com/omaxldm

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), the ranking Republican on the Senate's labor committee, said in a hearing Tuesday that he would prefer to see the minimum wage abolished.

Alexander's declaration came amid a back-and-forth between a witness from the conservative Heritage Foundation and Sens. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). The trio had been debating what kind of impact a higher minimum wage would have on a theoretical worker, and it seemed Sanders wanted to know whether the witness opposed raising the minimum wage or having a minimum wage at all.

"There are some conservatives who do not believe in the concept of the minimum wage," Sanders said to the witness, James Sherk, a labor policy analyst at the think tank.

"Let me jump in," Alexander then said. "I do not believe in it."

The policy debate had been lively, with interruptions all around, and Sanders grew excited at Alexander's interjection.

"So we have a ranking member," Sanders responded. "Alright! There we go!"
Sanders turned to Alexander.

"So you do not believe in the concept of the minimum wage?"

"That's correct," Alexander responded.

"You would abolish the minimum wage?"

"Correct."

"And if someone had to work for two bucks an hour," Sanders continued, "they would work for two bucks an hour?"

Alexander went on to compare a higher minimum wage to a form of welfare. Instead of boosting it, as Congress is now considering, he suggested a common conservative alternative to a federal wage floor -- a higher earned-income tax credit.

"No, I would go for a much more targeted approach," Alexander said. "The question I want to ask, if we are interested in social justice, and we want to honor work instead of getting a welfare check, then wouldn't a more efficient way to help people in poverty be to increase the earned-income tax credit rather than do what we always do here, which is come up with a big idea and send the bill to somebody else? What we're doing is coming up with the big idea and sending the bill to the employer.

"Why don't we just pay for the big ideas we come up with," he continued. "And if we want to create a standard of living for people that's much higher than what they have today, then let's attach the dollars to the job and everybody pay for it. I don't want to do that. But if we were going to do it, then I think that's the way we should do it."

"That's a very interesting discussion for another time," Sanders said with a slight laugh.

Sanders then turned back to Sherk and asked him if he'd support a bill sponsored by Alexander abolishing the minimum wage.

"I believe the minimum wage hurts its intended beneficiaries," Sherk responded. "I do not support the concept of the minimum wage."

"I appreciate your honesty," Sanders replied.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:50 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
No evidence for this either.

Inflation has maintained a steady pace.
That's because you believe the govt's numbers which are lies. ( So are the unemployment numbers)

There's evidence all over the place ifn' you want to look at real numbers, not the current ones being fudged buy manipulating the CPI. You ignored my earlier post about how things get removed from the CPI. You can't even compare today's numbers, with the 1970s because food and energy prices were removed.

Speaking of which, you probably need to rely on a CPI instead of observing for yourself. You also haven't been around long enough to see it all. But you can see it over the recent past if you go to the supermarket. Food prices are soaring. Nearly everything is $5 and there's less in the packages. Lay's Chips have less oz s as does tuna, and the price of tuna went up too.

Even at the once proclaimed 4% a year, how much is that over ten, twenty, thirty years? That right there is dollar erosion. Just do the math. Or better yet, grab and old catalog and old coins ( see how much weightier they are due to more valuable metal).

There's other things in the economic mix, like cheap imports in the 1990s which will bring down inflation numbers. But inflation is no longer properly defined. It's the amount of extra money in circulation. During a recession or a flood of cheap imports it just hides it.

Quote:
You believe the stupidest stuff.
This screams you believe the stupidest stuff, but don't see it because you trust and love govt and mainstream economists who rely on a stupid economic model. The sheep follow it.

I've study this stuff. It's not a belief system.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:55 PM   #62
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Warning logical fallacies being pointed out:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
BEP wants to go back to this:
Nope that's false. Not only that but it's impossible to even go back to that. Manufacturing has left this country. And your fire escape point is a strawman. You excel at those.

I see you can't articulate an argument that refutes what I said though. So I want to thank you for ceding the argument in my favor.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:00 PM   #63
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Alternate Inflation Charts

The CPI chart on the home page reflects our estimate of inflation for today as if it were calculated the same way it was in 1990. The CPI on the Alternate Data Series tab here reflects the CPI as if it were calculated using the methodologies in place in 1980. In general terms, methodological shifts in government reporting have depressed reported inflation, moving the concept of the CPI away from being a measure of the cost of living needed to maintain a constant standard of living.








CPI Year-to-Year Growth


The CPI-U (consumer price index) is the broadest measure of consumer price inflation for goods and services published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).

While the headline number usually is the seasonally-adjusted month-to-month change, the formal CPI is reported on a not-seasonally-adjusted basis, with annual inflation measured in terms of year-to-year percent change in the price index.

In the charts to the right we show two SGS-Alternate CPI estimates: One based on the pre-1990 official methodology for computing the CPI-U, and the other based on the methodology which was employed prior to 1980.

Please note: Our Data Download is currently only providing the 1980-Based numbers, but 1990-Based numbers will be introduced shortly.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:05 PM   #64
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Comparison Of Prices Over 70 Years

Since 2008 to 2011 each year we have created our own Inflation basket which includes a mix of 30 + items including food, goods and services, one of the many things it shows is inflation as measured by basic food and just 1 gallon of gas is vastly different compared with any government produced figures.

Average Cost Of New Home Homes

1930 $3,845.00 , 1940 $3,920.00, 1950 $8,450.00 , 1960 $12,700.00 ,
1970 $23,450.00 , 1980 $68,700.00 , 1990 $123,000.00 , 2008 $238,880

Average Wages
1930 $1,970.00 , 1940 $1,725.00, 1950 $3,210.00 , 1960 $5,315.00 ,
1970 $9,400.00 , 1980 $19,500.00 , 1990 $28,960.00 , 2008 $40,523

Average Cost of New Car Cars
1930 $600.00 , 1940 $850.00, 1950 $1,510.00 , 1960 $2,600.00 ,
1970 $3,450.00 , 1980 $7,200.00 , 1990 $16,950.00 , 2008 $27,958

Average Cost Gallon Of gas
1930 10 cents , 1940 11 cents , 1950 18 cents , 1960 25 cents ,
1970 36 cents , 1980 $1.19 , 1990 $1.34 , 2009 $2.051

Average Cost Loaf of Bread Food
1930 9 cents , 1940 10 cents , 1950 12 cents , 1960 22 cents ,
1970 25 cents , 1980 50 cents , 1990 70 cents , 2008 $2.79

Average Cost 1lb Hamburger Meat
1930 12 cents , 1940 20 cents , 1950 30 cents , 1960 45 cents ,
1970 70 cents , 1980 99 cents , 1990 89 cents , 2009 $3.99

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70ye...icechange.html

Yeah no evidence, prices are steady. And I'm the one who believes stupid shit.

I admit some things are cause by bubbles ( but that's also due to increasing the money supply)
Then there's FP issues with oil embargoes and wars. Weather, such as a drought, will lead to a temporary price increase in certain food items from an area, but that is not inflation-based it's caused by less supply.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:10 PM   #65
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I have an old catalog from the late 1880s but don't have it to hand. So I just did a quick google and found this for 1900's

A loaf of bread would cost you any where from $0.4 to $0.8 cents in the 1900's. Some other interesting facts; a gallon of milk was $0.28, a pound of butter was $0.25, a gallon of gas was $0.04, a new home (average) was $3,395 and the annual income was $1,004.

http://www.chacha.com/question/how-m....2rgxPqnx.dpuf

There's no inflation though.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:11 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Except you know for that whole thing called the middle class. Pre-industrial world: massive amount of poor people mostly doing subsistence farming, small middle class of tradesman and merchants, smaller upper class nobility. Industrial Revolution: Declining amount of people in poverty, growing middle class, growing upper class as wealth wasn't tied to land anymore.

That 380 also went a lot farther because the currency was not inflated and prices actually dropped through the gilded age. Also what we would call necessary for life today were either luxuries or weren't invented yet.

Also, your thing about child labor? The way the modern Western world is now is the exception in human history. For most of human history children were expected to work on the farm or learning a trade. That is why having a big family traditionally was a good thing more labor availability. During the industrial revolution people weren't shocked by child labor because it was nothing new.
I swear the nut bags in dc are the worst with history. The middle class didn't became a factor until post WW2.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:15 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Except you know for that whole thing called the middle class. Pre-industrial world: massive amount of poor people mostly doing subsistence farming, small middle class of tradesman and merchants, smaller upper class nobility. Industrial Revolution: Declining amount of people in poverty, growing middle class, growing upper class as wealth wasn't tied to land anymore.

That 380 also went a lot farther because the currency was not inflated and prices actually dropped through the gilded age. Also what we would call necessary for life today were either luxuries or weren't invented yet.

Also, your thing about child labor? The way the modern Western world is now is the exception in human history. For most of human history children were expected to work on the farm or learning a trade. That is why having a big family traditionally was a good thing more labor availability. During the industrial revolution people weren't shocked by child labor because it was nothing new.
Oh and he gave you the inflation adjusted value too. Lrn2read
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:17 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
...the Logistics and Transportation departments pay substantially better than the stores by the way. I just wanted to throw that out there because everyone tends to think of the stores when they think of Wal Mart.
Yes. Had an acquaintance that did logistics (management not driving) for walmart and then S's and he pulls down over 100k and has for about 4 years.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:18 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
Raising the minimum wage buys short term money gain until the businesses catch up and you're right back where you started. It's like a dog chasing it's tail...or sitting in the ACME slingshot to catch the road runner.
Incorrect. It is not a zero sum game.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:22 PM   #70
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Oh and he gave you the inflation adjusted value too. Lrn2read
That is true and that amount would go a lot farther due to lower prices and the government not taking about a third to 40% of that in taxes.

Your idea that the middle class didn't become a factor till after WW2 is hilariously ignorant. I mean the Gay 90s and the Roaring 20s must not of happened because either there was a small sliver of really rich and almost everybody else was poor. I mean the poor people didn't have any money to spend on stuff and there is only so much the rich can consume at one time. So who was fueling those economic expansions? Why it must be some sort of group who had enough money to spend on luxuries but weren't the ultra rich, they had to be in the middle somewhere.....
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:24 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Since 2008 to 2011 each year we have created our own Inflation basket which includes a mix of 30 + items including food, goods and services, one of the many things it shows is inflation as measured by basic food and just 1 gallon of gas is vastly different compared with any government produced figures.

Average Cost Of New Home Homes

1930 $3,845.00 , 1940 $3,920.00, 1950 $8,450.00 , 1960 $12,700.00 ,
1970 $23,450.00 , 1980 $68,700.00 , 1990 $123,000.00 , 2008 $238,880

Average Wages
1930 $1,970.00 , 1940 $1,725.00, 1950 $3,210.00 , 1960 $5,315.00 ,
1970 $9,400.00 , 1980 $19,500.00 , 1990 $28,960.00 , 2008 $40,523

Average Cost of New Car Cars
1930 $600.00 , 1940 $850.00, 1950 $1,510.00 , 1960 $2,600.00 ,
1970 $3,450.00 , 1980 $7,200.00 , 1990 $16,950.00 , 2008 $27,958

Average Cost Gallon Of gas
1930 10 cents , 1940 11 cents , 1950 18 cents , 1960 25 cents ,
1970 36 cents , 1980 $1.19 , 1990 $1.34 , 2009 $2.051

Average Cost Loaf of Bread Food
1930 9 cents , 1940 10 cents , 1950 12 cents , 1960 22 cents ,
1970 25 cents , 1980 50 cents , 1990 70 cents , 2008 $2.79

Average Cost 1lb Hamburger Meat
1930 12 cents , 1940 20 cents , 1950 30 cents , 1960 45 cents ,
1970 70 cents , 1980 99 cents , 1990 89 cents , 2009 $3.99

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70ye...icechange.html

Yeah no evidence, prices are steady. And I'm the one who believes stupid shit.

I admit some things are cause by bubbles ( but that's also due to increasing the money supply)
Then there's FP issues with oil embargoes and wars. Weather, such as a drought, will lead to a temporary price increase in certain food items from an area, but that is not inflation-based it's caused by less supply.

Yes you are the one who believes stupid shit. If you think that John Williams or who ever you quote here is better than the BLS at the BLS's job then you are a ****ing moron and don't understand what actually goes into CPI and unemploument calculations.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:25 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
BEP wants to go back to this:



/Darn government regulation, making those freedom loving companies install fire escapes and obey child labor laws.
/so what if 146 people died in the fire in 20 minutes
But it was right about to end anyway, all of its own! Just like slavery!

/BEP
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:26 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
That is true and that amount would go a lot farther due to lower prices and the government not taking about a third to 40% of that in taxes.

Your idea that the middle class didn't become a factor till after WW2 is hilariously ignorant. I mean the Gay 90s and the Roaring 20s must not of happened because either there was a small sliver of really rich and almost everybody else was poor. I mean the poor people didn't have any money to spend on stuff and there is only so much the rich can consume at one time. So who was fueling those economic expansions? Why it must be some sort of group who had enough money to spend on luxuries but weren't the ultra rich, they had to be in the middle somewhere.....
That was the gilded age dipshit. Both of those periods were driven by credit expansion and the gains disproportionately went to the top.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:28 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Sorry, there is zero evidence of this.

The minimum wage has been around for decades. Has been raised for decades. Guess what. Nothing you conservatives predicts happens.
Oh boy. Get ready for a lecture about how she isn't conservative but some obscure sub-category of something on a political spectrum that she made up.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:28 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
That is true and that amount would go a lot farther due to lower prices and the government not taking about a third to 40% of that in taxes.

Your idea that the middle class didn't become a factor till after WW2 is hilariously ignorant. I mean the Gay 90s and the Roaring 20s must not of happened because either there was a small sliver of really rich and almost everybody else was poor. I mean the poor people didn't have any money to spend on stuff and there is only so much the rich can consume at one time. So who was fueling those economic expansions? Why it must be some sort of group who had enough money to spend on luxuries but weren't the ultra rich, they had to be in the middle somewhere.....
And there is a huge difference between my opinion on this and yours. I have actually researched and read up on this stuff. You, otoh, just make it up.
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KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
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