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Old 06-27-2013, 09:17 AM  
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Uncle Lamar Wants to Abolish the Minimum Wage

Because those Wal Mart workers are overpaid, damn it! This guy is the ranking GOP member of the Senate Labor Committee. Wow....

http://tinyurl.com/omaxldm

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), the ranking Republican on the Senate's labor committee, said in a hearing Tuesday that he would prefer to see the minimum wage abolished.

Alexander's declaration came amid a back-and-forth between a witness from the conservative Heritage Foundation and Sens. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). The trio had been debating what kind of impact a higher minimum wage would have on a theoretical worker, and it seemed Sanders wanted to know whether the witness opposed raising the minimum wage or having a minimum wage at all.

"There are some conservatives who do not believe in the concept of the minimum wage," Sanders said to the witness, James Sherk, a labor policy analyst at the think tank.

"Let me jump in," Alexander then said. "I do not believe in it."

The policy debate had been lively, with interruptions all around, and Sanders grew excited at Alexander's interjection.

"So we have a ranking member," Sanders responded. "Alright! There we go!"
Sanders turned to Alexander.

"So you do not believe in the concept of the minimum wage?"

"That's correct," Alexander responded.

"You would abolish the minimum wage?"

"Correct."

"And if someone had to work for two bucks an hour," Sanders continued, "they would work for two bucks an hour?"

Alexander went on to compare a higher minimum wage to a form of welfare. Instead of boosting it, as Congress is now considering, he suggested a common conservative alternative to a federal wage floor -- a higher earned-income tax credit.

"No, I would go for a much more targeted approach," Alexander said. "The question I want to ask, if we are interested in social justice, and we want to honor work instead of getting a welfare check, then wouldn't a more efficient way to help people in poverty be to increase the earned-income tax credit rather than do what we always do here, which is come up with a big idea and send the bill to somebody else? What we're doing is coming up with the big idea and sending the bill to the employer.

"Why don't we just pay for the big ideas we come up with," he continued. "And if we want to create a standard of living for people that's much higher than what they have today, then let's attach the dollars to the job and everybody pay for it. I don't want to do that. But if we were going to do it, then I think that's the way we should do it."

"That's a very interesting discussion for another time," Sanders said with a slight laugh.

Sanders then turned back to Sherk and asked him if he'd support a bill sponsored by Alexander abolishing the minimum wage.

"I believe the minimum wage hurts its intended beneficiaries," Sherk responded. "I do not support the concept of the minimum wage."

"I appreciate your honesty," Sanders replied.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:40 PM   #76
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chances are good you are reading this post while sitting on a china made chair, reading a china made puter screen sitting on a china made table top. and all of that was transported in vehicle with a shit ton of chine parts in it.

Do any of you make minimum wage? I employ 30+ folks and none of them make minimum wage. we should not spend one moment on minimum wage conversation. it serves only the interest of the largest corporations, like walmart. and walmart stuff is crap. so **** it.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:44 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
That was the gilded age dipshit. Both of those periods were driven by credit expansion and the gains disproportionately went to the top.
Yes, the middle class came from the industrial revolution. Yes, there were rich people. Who do you think the rich people who ran businesses had as: accountants, managers, salesmen, architects, engineers, clerks, lawyers, foremen, draftsman, and other specialized skilled labor? and do you think they paid them the same as the low skilled factory line workers?

As there were more businesses, they need for labor and skilled labor increased. That is where the middle class came from. Labor is a market just like everything else.

Why do you think Henry Ford paid his workers more? It wasn't so that they could buy a car, it was because a higher pay attracts more skilled and more productive workers. Its almost as if he thought that there was competition for labor....

Sugar Daddy FDR didn't make the middle class, in fact his policies did a lot to destroy it. The middle class was there before FDR and recovered after most of FDR's policies were discontinued.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:41 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls View Post
...it serves only the interest of the largest corporations, like walmart...
That is interesting. Care to explain how a minimum wage only serves the interests of large corporations?
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:23 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
That was the gilded age dipshit. Both of those periods were driven by credit expansion and the gains disproportionately went to the top.
The same thing happened in the 1873 and 1893 panics, actually. Speculative bubbles inflated, a few reaped the rewards, they popped, almost all of the population suffered.

That's precisely why the economy was designed to avoid speculative bubbles until the 80s. As the regulatory framework became defanged, the number and depth of bubbles and the resultant crises became larger, ultimately culminating in the subprime crisis.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:20 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
The same thing happened in the 1873 and 1893 panics, actually. Speculative bubbles inflated, a few reaped the rewards, they popped, almost all of the population suffered.

That's precisely why the economy was designed to avoid speculative bubbles until the 80s. As the regulatory framework became defanged, the number and depth of bubbles and the resultant crises became larger, ultimately culminating in the subprime crisis.
Somewhat. The 08 crisis was driven by a radical shift in the Fed's behaviors AND deregulation. Alan Greenspan was the first Fed Chair to use the Fed's powers to target asset prices instead of price levels. He provided the kindling, lighter fluid, and matches to the banks/IBs to burn it all down.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:24 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Somewhat. The 08 crisis was driven by a radical shift in the Fed's behaviors AND deregulation. Alan Greenspan was the first Fed Chair to use the Fed's powers to target asset prices instead of price levels. He provided the kindling, lighter fluid, and matches to the banks/IBs to burn it all down.
By lowering the federal funds rate continually to pump up the economy after the tech bubble burst.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:25 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Yes, the middle class came from the industrial revolution. Yes, there were rich people. Who do you think the rich people who ran businesses had as: accountants, managers, salesmen, architects, engineers, clerks, lawyers, foremen, draftsman, and other specialized skilled labor? and do you think they paid them the same as the low skilled factory line workers?

As there were more businesses, they need for labor and skilled labor increased. That is where the middle class came from. Labor is a market just like everything else.

Why do you think Henry Ford paid his workers more? It wasn't so that they could buy a car, it was because a higher pay attracts more skilled and more productive workers. Its almost as if he thought that there was competition for labor....

Sugar Daddy FDR didn't make the middle class, in fact his policies did a lot to destroy it. The middle class was there before FDR and recovered after most of FDR's policies were discontinued.
Like I said, you just make it up as you go along.

The post WW2 boom and the American growth story until 1972 was driven by the middle class. You are part of the idiot fringe to argue otherwise.

And Henry Ford paid his workers more so they would buy his cars. Pick up a real history book sometime.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:30 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
By lowering the federal funds rate continually to pump up the economy after the tech bubble burst.
Well, the economy didn't really need to be propped up when the tech bubble burst. Greenspan lowered rates not to induce economic activity but to reinflate stock prices. When he got the feed back he wanted on that, he kept rates way too low for way too long because he had convinced himself he was the smartest economist ever.

Historically, the Fed has two mandates, stable price levels and full employment. Their actions are supposed to be taken to either encourage full employment or kill off inflation/deflation. Greenspan took a radical departure from that history when he lowered rates to pump up the stock market.

Edit: and after he reinflated the equity markets, his answer to everything was to lower the Fed Funds rate.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:35 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Like I said, you just make it up as you go along.
Yet you have nothing to refute what I am saying. You also throw out completely ignorant statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
The post WW2 boom and the American growth story until 1972 was driven by the middle class. You are part of the idiot fringe to argue otherwise.
Who argued otherwise? Since the industrial revolution all economic booms are driven by the middle class because the poor don't have money and the rich are too small a set to drive a boom. This statement has nothing to do with the discussion by the way.

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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
And Henry Ford paid his workers more so they would buy his cars. Pick up a real history book sometime.
No, no he didn't. He paid his workers more so he could keep them because experienced workers are more productive than new hires. Reducing employee churn reduces costs and ups productivity.

I would suggest you actually read a history book outside of the drivel presented to you in History 101.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:14 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
By lowering the federal funds rate continually to pump up the economy after the tech bubble burst.
All that did was re-inflate the bubble
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:42 AM   #86
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Nope that's false. Not only that but it's impossible to even go back to that. Manufacturing has left this country. And your fire escape point is a strawman. You excel at those.

I see you can't articulate an argument that refutes what I said though. So I want to thank you for ceding the argument in my favor.
Inflation has outpaced wages.

Taking into account inflation, the minimum wage has decreased since 1960.

Therefore, the minimum cannot be the cause of inflation.

Concluding, you believe the stupidest stuff.
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:44 AM   #87
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Yeah no evidence, prices are steady. And I'm the one who believes stupid shit.
It was said inflation has remained steady, not prices.

Stop trying to argue against things nobody has said.
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:46 AM   #88
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Oh boy. Get ready for a lecture about how she isn't conservative but some obscure sub-category of something on a political spectrum that she made up.
Libertarian (or whatever label she has for herself) is just something people who are too ashamed to admit they vote Republican say.
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:54 AM   #89
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Studies on the Minimum Wage

Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment? (2013) reviews the past two decades of research on the impact of minimum wage increases on employment: this study concludes that the weight of the evidence points to little or no effect of minimum wage increases on job growth. The study also finds that a review of the minimum wage literature commonly cited by minimum wage opponents is flawed because it is subjective, relies in large part on studies of wage increases in foreign countries, and fails to consider the most sophisticated and recent minimum wage studie

http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...ge-2013-02.pdf


Minimum Wage Effects Across State Borders (2010) provides the most sophisticated study to date of the effects of increases in the minimum wage on job growth in the United States. Taking advantage of the fact that a record number of states raised their minimum wages during the 1990s and 2000s – creating scores of differing minimum wage rates across the country – the study compares employment levels among every pair of neighboring U.S. counties that had differing minimum wage levels at any time between 1990 and 2006 and finds that higher minimum wages did not reduce employment.

http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/157-07.pdf

Minimum Wages and Employment: A Case Study of the Fast-Food Industry in New Jersey and Pennsylvania (1994) is a landmark study published by David Card and Alan Krueger in the American Economic Review examining employment at fast-food restaurants on both sides of the New Jersey-Pennsylvania border after New Jersey raised its minimum wage to $5.05 an hour while Pennsylvania’s minimum wage held constant. The authors conducted a phone survey of over 400 fast-food restaurants and found no evidence that the increase in the minimum wage in New Jersey led to job loss—in fact they found employment increased in fast-food restaurants in New Jersey. For this and related research, Card was awarded the John Bates Clark medal in 1995—the so-called “junior Nobel prize,” granted by the American Economics Association every two years to the best economist under forty.

http://emlab.berkeley.edu/~card/papers/njmin-aer.pdf

Bloomberg News, April 2012: "[A] wave of new economic research is disproving those arguments about job losses and youth employment. Previous studies tended not to control for regional economic trends that were already affecting employment levels, such as a manufacturing-dependent state that was shedding jobs. The new research looks at micro-level employment patterns for a more accurate employment picture. The studies find minimum-wage increases even provide an economic boost, albeit a small one, as strapped workers immediately spend their raises. Let us hope that states lead the way on the minimum wage, and that they tie increases to the cost of living, making endless rounds of legislation unnecessary. Then let us hope that fresh research and improved lives built on hard work compel Congress to follow.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...s-a-raise.html
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:02 AM   #90
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Of all the B.S. conservatives toss around, the constant attacking of America's poorest citizens pisses me off the most.

In one breath, the decry anyone who negatively mentions executive compensation as jealous, class warfare, communist.

In the next, they call the lowest paid workers lazy and overpaid.

It is straight up cognitive dissonance.

The majority of Americans are not lazy. The majority of Americans just want to go to a job they don't hate, earn a pay that allows them to live outside of poverty, and not go bankrupt if an emergency happens, perhaps send their kids to college without 30 years of debt.

Any job in America that society needs, even those standing at a cashier or flipping burgers, as a Job American Society continues to say it needs because we continue to shop there, deserves a wage that allow them to not live in poverty. There is no single job in America that by working it at 40 hours a week, a person deserves to live at below poverty level.
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