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Old 07-01-2013, 08:33 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Egyptian protestors storming Muslim Brotherhood HQ, demanding Morsi's removal.

The ugly business of budding democracies.

Happening before our very eyes. This is explosive.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...850692648.html

Egypt opposition to continue mass protests
Seat of the powerful Muslim Brotherhood to which President Morsi belongs set on fire as protesters push for his removal.
Last Modified: 01 Jul 2013 12:45

Protesters seeking to force Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi from office are gearing up for a second day of action, after large crowds thronged the streets of Cairo and cities around the country and marched on the presidential palace.

In the capital, the seat of the powerful Muslim Brotherhood to which Morsi belongs, was set ablaze before people stormed and looted the building, an AFP correspondent there said.

People were seen leaving with petrol bombs, helmets, flak jackets, furniture, televisions and documents.

Some preparing for rallies on Monday spent the night in dozens of tents pitched at Cairo's central Tahrir Square and the palace, positions organisers say they will hold until Morsi resigns.

In fewer numbers, supporters of the Egyptian president came out on Sunday to show their support and defend what they called the president’s "legitimacy".

As anger against Morsi swept the streets, at least six people were killed and more than 600 wounded in clashes between the pro and anti-Morsi groups, the Reuters news agency reported.

The main opposition Tamarod - Arabic for rebellion - movement, which led the demonstrations, gave Morsi a deadline of Tuesday to quit, threatening a campaign of civil disobedience if he stays.

The number of people who joined in protests on Sunday, the anniversary of Morsi's first year in office, was between 14m and 17m people, the interior ministry told Al Jazeera.

"It is absolutely fair to say that an unprecedented number of Egyptians went to the streets accross the country," said Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel Hamid, reporting from Cairo.

She added that a statement from Morsi during the protests was not welcomed by many, as it did not offer anything new.

In the message released on Sunday, he said: "I believe we can come together and find a way that builds our country," and he could "engage in national dialogue."

In its statement, Tamarod urged "state institutions including the army, the police and the judiciary to clearly side with the popular will as represented by the crowds."

The group also rejected presidential calls for dialogue, saying: "There is no way to accept any halfway measures.

"There is no alternative other than the peaceful end of power of the Muslim Brotherhood and its representative, Mohamed Morsi."

Morsi supporters

A few kilometres away from the presidential palace, thousands of Morsi supporters also staged their own sit-in to show support for their president.

"If we are saying that we have a majority, and the opposition are saying that they have a majority, how can they decide?" asked Nader Omran, a spokesman for the Freedom and Justice Party, the political wing of the Muslim Brotherhood.

"What is the other solution for this dilemma, except the ballot box?"

Presidential spokesman Omar Amer said Morsi was serious in his repeated calls for national dialogue.

"[Morsi] announced to all of Egypt's people he made mistakes and that he is in the process of fixing these mistakes," Amer told a late-night news conference.

The duelling rallies on Sunday only further highlighted the deepening political polarisation in Egypt.

Morsi supporters are full of praise for his first year in office, insisting that the president has strengthened civilian rule in Egypt and done his best to manage a failing economy.

Many of them dismissed Sunday’s protests as the work of ex-regime figures and “thugs”, fuelled by a hostile media and Western governments.

Anti-government protesters, on the other hand, dismissed Morsi’s first term as a failure and described him as a dictatorial leader. Many accused him of backing the Palestinian group Hamas and other armed groups; one well-dressed man in Tahrir insisted that Morsi planned to cede the Sinai peninsula to Hamas.

But their main complaint was the worsening economy, which has been in free-fall since Morsi took office, with the Egyptian pound losing nearly 20 percent of its value and industry crippled by fuel and electricity shortages.

"He's borrowed money from everyone in the world," said Said Ahmed, referring to $11bn in loans Egypt has received from Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey to prop up the economy. "Who's going to pay for that? Our children."
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:23 PM   #31
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
remember when defleckshun was the biggest cheerleader for the arab spring in Egypt..,,?

...remember when amnorix showed up around the launch of the Iraq war and cried and whined for years? ..it's not shocking to watch libs make excuses and marginalize this situation in Egypt...it's predictable

As usual you're not making much sense. I think what is going on is very good, unless it devolves into full blown civil war. We have no interest in seeing the Muslim Brotherhood in charge of Egypt.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:24 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Obama blows a kiss to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood regime and warns Egyptian military not to intervene on behalf of the Egyptian people.
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The Egyptian military is not a popularly-elected body.

The civilian leadership (i.e. Morsi and the Brotherhood) is. This is a civil conflict between those seeking representation and effectiveness, and those in office either succeeding or failing to provide it.

Trust civilian determination, pat. It has served us well, even if we did have a really shitty time getting it right for the first 150 years.

Yeah, I don't see much reason for the Administration to open it's squawk box at the moment, to be honest.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:20 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Obama blows a kiss to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood regime and warns Egyptian military not to intervene on behalf of the Egyptian people.

Of course Hussein is going to stand up for the Brotherhood. Every move he makes in the Middle East is meant to move countries toward a radical Islamist power structure.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:25 PM   #34
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These photographs are pretty interesting. Don't see this on the evening news.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...us-our-freedom
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
These photographs are pretty interesting. Don't see this on the evening news.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...us-our-freedom
Yeah... they can't spell any English worth a shit...

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Old 07-02-2013, 03:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The ugly business of budding democracies.

Happening before our very eyes. This is explosive.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...850692648.html

Egypt opposition to continue mass protests
Seat of the powerful Muslim Brotherhood to which President Morsi belongs set on fire as protesters push for his removal.
Last Modified: 01 Jul 2013 12:45
Wonder if the moderates taking back power is Obama's fault?
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:28 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Wonder if the moderates taking back power is Obama's fault?
He seems kind of chilly to that idea. He's certainly not doing anything to help bring it about.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:34 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Yeah, I don't see much reason for the Administration to open it's squawk box at the moment, to be honest.
duh......

We are funding and arming soldiers that are killing Hezbollah soldiers in Syria. We can't be seen as totally at war with Hezbollah. We need them at some point in the future for the two state solution. We piss them off too much and some stupid ass mullah declares a holy war against us..... Americans will die.

We are already poking the bear. Setting up bear traps. No need to be seen publicly burning his den too.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:37 PM   #39
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He seems kind of chilly to that idea. He's certainly not doing anything to help bring it about.
We need to keep our hands off. The Egyptians are a moderate people, as far as muslims in the middle east go. Their military is a professional army. They will eventually find a leader to rally around and rule the country.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:53 PM   #40
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Morsi has done more to make the Muslim Brotherhood unpopular in 6 months than Mubarak and Nasser trying as hard as they could did for 60 years.
Democracy at work.

Self-governance actually exposes bullshit idiots who think they can run an effective government, rather than letting them stand on a street corner under a dictator and garner support without having to ever have to prove anything.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #41
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The Left is covered either way. If Morsi's regime worked out, it was proof of Obama's incredibly successful Middle East foreign policy. If it doesn't, it was proof of a "theocracy" being dangerous and one more reason the USA should rid itself of the religious Right here at home.
"The left" wants to see a peaceful Egypt with a responsive government run by the people for the people.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:57 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Yeah, I don't see much reason for the Administration to open it's squawk box at the moment, to be honest.
That's all fine and good, but that's not the argument pat's making.

He's arguing that Obama is favoring Islamism over a protesting public.

The truth of the matter is, he's favoring self-representation over Marshall Law.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Wonder if the moderates taking back power is Obama's fault?
It's democracy's fault.

Extremists are historically really, really shitty at running countries.

Democratized nations always moderate over time. This will take time, and Egypt will emerge stronger because of it.

We did. And it took us 150 years.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:02 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
We need to keep our hands off.
Not an option.

When you're constantly, actively involved in arming a regime, as we have been (and still are) with Egypt, "keeping our hands off" means siding with those in power. Pulling back your arms sales means you're siding with the opposition.

What you're prescribing is literally not an option. That's what happens when you decide to do dealings with countries at the level we do them.

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The Egyptians are a moderate people, as far as muslims in the middle east go. Their military is a professional army. They will eventually find a leader to rally around and rule the country.
"Egyptians are moderate people -- so let's have the military take over."

Makes no goddamn sense, bro. You've got to let the Egyptian people take care of this without a military coup.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:46 PM   #45
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Obama told Mubarak to get out. I see him doing the same here shortly.

Gives the impression we are behind the people. I don't see much of a better option although we can't control what/who ends up in power.
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