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Old 07-03-2013, 10:23 AM  
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
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The Constitution. Happy Birthday, America

In honor of our Nation's birthday, and as a result of the fact that the majority of Americans who use the constitution as a shield and have no idea what most of it actually says...I propose a discussion. Each day, we'll read, review and discuss 1 section of the constitution and the bill of rights.




"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:03 PM   #31
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
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Nice thread -- let's weigh in with the Kirk
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveNull View Post
Shouldn't it be the Declaration of Independence? Since it's, you know, the anniversary of the Declaration and not the Constitution?
I noticed that as well, but I didn't want to nit-pick. If some of these folks accidentally read the Cons, it is still a benefit.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:16 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Grand_Illusion View Post
I will give you 17 trillion reasons why this has been abused by government and its supporters like you for at least a half century. Yes, libs/progressives got the massive controlling government they wanted through this abuse, but at what cost to future generations.

This lib/progressive period will go down as one of the most selfish periods in American history.

TGI
Abused? Sure, and it is not limited by party. The point is, "it's unconstitutional!" is generally not a valid argument.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:18 PM   #34
The_Grand_Illusion The_Grand_Illusion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Abused? Sure, and it is not limited by party. The point is, "it's unconstitutional!" is generally not a valid argument.
You people have no shame but that is not surprising. This is abuse beyond reason.

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Old 07-03-2013, 12:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Grand_Illusion View Post
You people have no shame but that is not surprising. This is abuse beyond reason.

TGI
Abused? Sure, and it is not limited by party. The point is, "it's unconstitutional!" is generally not a valid argument.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:23 PM   #36
The_Grand_Illusion The_Grand_Illusion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Abused? Sure, and it is not limited by party. The point is, "it's unconstitutional!" is generally not a valid argument.
No shit sherlock, there are libs/progressives in both parties that have abused this beyond comprehension. I didn't say it was unconstitutional so quit putting words in my mouth to excuse this abusive behavior by government and folks like yourself.

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Old 07-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Grand_Illusion View Post
No shit sherlock, there are libs/progressives in both parties that have abused this beyond comprehension. I didn't say it was unconstitutional so quit putting words in my mouth to excuse this abusive behavior by government and folks like yourself.

TGI
It is a common sentiment among your type. And as a birther, I didn't think you had real high standards for what goes into and out of your mouth.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:39 PM   #38
The_Grand_Illusion The_Grand_Illusion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
It is a common sentiment among your type. And as a birther, I didn't think you had real high standards for what goes into and out of your mouth.


And everything you post defending Obama/dems/libs/progs should read:

"nothing to see here, move along"

It would fit with about 90% of your posts, Baghdad Cosmo.

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Old 07-03-2013, 12:40 PM   #39
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Buck, we're going to call you out when you say people ignore the Constitution. You can call it trolling if you like, it won't affect me. Facts are facts.
It's trolling because it's already been discussed at extensive length, whereby it shows no one is going to budge from their position. Rinse and repeat just gets tiresome and you are not debating when you do something like this.

Now I suggest you respect the author of the thread and discuss the first issues he sets out in his original post.

When it gets to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments you point would be relevant....until then you are engaging in a logical fallacy as you are not really articulating any argument.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:43 PM   #40
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I would probably agree with her (if that's her view, which I'm not sure it is and cannot speak for her) that the weaker the system the better. There are things in the Constitution I don't agree with, but it is what it is, and we do have the power to change it if we want to. So there is recourse I guess.
"I confess that there are several parts of this constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them... I consent, Sir, to this Constitution because I expect no better, and because I am not sure, that it is not the best."

-Ben Franklin 09/17/1787

http://www.usconstitution.net/franklin.html
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:45 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Why do you assume what benefits the people within the United States doesn't also benefit the United States, the country?
Because when this country was born its people were self sufficient. They had jobs within the community. They didn't expect to live off the govt. Hell, I don't think they were paid to be in office. They did it for the good of the country, not as a career. At least that is how it started.

What you are thinking of is socialism. And that's whatyou think a democracy is.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:45 PM   #42
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Typically I am loath to belabor a point. Even allowing small and temporary misunderstandings for the sake of argument. But this point can not be made clearly enough or often enough; it is not unpatriotic to express dissent.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:57 PM   #43
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
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The idea for this thread was sparked several months ago at a charity event where teams of mostly educated people vied in a bout of knowledge and trivia to raise money for a worthy cause. One of the topics...the US Constitution exposed significant weakness. A passage or theme was stated and a team of people was to determine the correct amendment. Very few other than the obvious were successfully answered.

At that time, I resigned myself to learn the document better. We hear people squeal very regularly about their "Constitutional rights" but most of those people can't tell you what 3 amendments are about.


This is the source of my selection of an off season conversation about the US Constitution instead of the Declaration of Independence, which is a worthy discussion in it's own right.
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:07 PM   #44
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
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Originally Posted by ptlyon View Post
Because when this country was born its people were self sufficient. They had jobs within the community. They didn't expect to live off the govt. Hell, I don't think they were paid to be in office. They did it for the good of the country, not as a career. At least that is how it started.

What you are thinking of is socialism. And that's whatyou think a democracy is.
Much of your post if flat-out wrong, but it is really irrelevant. The Cons. says what it says, not what you want it to say. So you think the founders were socialists, huh? Most intelligent people recognize that any high-functioning society is going to have some socialist elements in it. Nothing is pure. Get over it.
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:15 PM   #45
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It's trolling because it's already been discussed at extensive length, whereby it shows no one is going to budge from their position. Rinse and repeat just gets tiresome and you are not debating when you do something like this.
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