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Old 07-03-2013, 11:37 AM  
shitgoose shitgoose is offline
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Career question RE: IT computer science field

I am interested in getting some job training in web development/computer coding career field. I have very little techie ability but am very interested in learning. Been reading up on some of these web development boot camps that teach you all this nerdazoid stuff in 9-12 weeks.

Example http://www.devbootcamp.com

Does anyone here have an opinion or experience about such job training?

Comments regarding anyone's experience in the career field is also encouraged. TIA
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:23 PM   #46
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Hmmm market flooded with experienced cheap labor doesn't bode we'll for newbies entering the field. Have to keep that in mind
they will figure out a wat to out source it soon
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:20 AM   #47
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one of the smartest people I have ever worked with was a devry grad

for what it's worth
How long ago did he attend? I'd say the quality of education you got from there oh around 20 years ago and now is quite different.

I'd say attending a community college is a better decision than Devry or ITT.

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I don't want to come off as saying certifications are worthless. I have 18 technical certifications. But, I used them to learn new stuff, not get a great job. They are usually essential to get past HR.
I think a degree is only required if you want to get into management. You can rise to a team lead, manage smaller shops without any degrees if you have the substitute experience.

It's still experience that trumps everything.
Oh I'm not saying they are worthless either. My current employer is paying for me to go back, so I'm definitely taking advantage of it.

E: Lots of good info in dis thread if anyone is reading it and considering going into/making a change to IT.

In my opinion, I think the demand for IT workers is gonna be huge again in the future. To agree with what others have brushed on, the demand is certainly not matching the supply now and it's going to become a much larger issue a few years from now.

Also, it's fun as hell to read the internal notes on trouble tickets that come through the help desk. "I asked Ms. (name here) to reboot her computer for me and five seconds later she said it was rebooted. At first I was amazed at the amazing ****ing super computers we have, until I realized she was just turning the monitor off and on again." Shit still slays me when I think about it.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:17 AM   #48
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How long ago did he attend? I'd say the quality of education you got from there oh around 20 years ago and now is quite different.

I'd say attending a community college is a better decision than Devry or ITT.


Oh I'm not saying they are worthless either. My current employer is paying for me to go back, so I'm definitely taking advantage of it.

E: Lots of good info in dis thread if anyone is reading it and considering going into/making a change to IT.

In my opinion, I think the demand for IT workers is gonna be huge again in the future. To agree with what others have brushed on, the demand is certainly not matching the supply now and it's going to become a much larger issue a few years from now.

Also, it's fun as hell to read the internal notes on trouble tickets that come through the help desk. "I asked Ms. (name here) to reboot her computer for me and five seconds later she said it was rebooted. At first I was amazed at the amazing ****ing super computers we have, until I realized she was just turning the monitor off and on again." Shit still slays me when I think about it.
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:53 AM   #49
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There are tons of good free resources for learning to code

http://mashable.com/2013/03/13/learn-to-code-free/

As others pointed out the key is getting your foot in the door. I've worked with tons of people with no higher education, or they were military, or crazy oddball degrees. Experience is so important.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:43 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by BryanBusby View Post
How long ago did he attend? I'd say the quality of education you got from there oh around 20 years ago and now is quite different.

I'd say attending a community college is a better decision than Devry or ITT.


Oh I'm not saying they are worthless either. My current employer is paying for me to go back, so I'm definitely taking advantage of it.

E: Lots of good info in dis thread if anyone is reading it and considering going into/making a change to IT.

In my opinion, I think the demand for IT workers is gonna be huge again in the future. To agree with what others have brushed on, the demand is certainly not matching the supply now and it's going to become a much larger issue a few years from now.

Also, it's fun as hell to read the internal notes on trouble tickets that come through the help desk. "I asked Ms. (name here) to reboot her computer for me and five seconds later she said it was rebooted. At first I was amazed at the amazing ****ing super computers we have, until I realized she was just turning the monitor off and on again." Shit still slays me when I think about it.
We had about 5 tickets that this happened on yesterday. This also happened with a field tech as well, after we took over his pc did the modem come up.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:48 AM   #51
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I am beginning this fall to pursue a degree in Computer Science for Computer Systems Management. How would I go about getting the experience need to make sure once I get out of school I could use my degree?
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:42 PM   #52
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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I love the my college vs. your college argument. For those of us who do the hiring, unless we happen to be looking for something very specific (which is rare), where you went to school doesn't matter as much as your personality during the interview.

Like it or not, beyond the practical questions I ask to prove a candidate isn't lying about being a network engineer, I've learned through the years that many other things/indicators tend to point towards a person's chance of being a success. And hiring a person who will be part of a team can be very different than the engineer who can pretty-much operate on his/her own.

THAT'S why I encourage everybody to highlight and integrate those intangibles like being a Veteran (a combat veteran being even better), an Eagle Scout, a coach of sports, into their resume and interview. Yeah, it matters, and it matters a lot.

I used to think of things like CCIE, Ivy league schools, and all that jazz first, now it's just a part of a much larger package..
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:58 PM   #53
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I love the my college vs. your college argument. For those of us who do the hiring, unless we happen to be looking for something very specific (which is rare), where you went to school doesn't matter as much as your personality during the interview.

Like it or not, beyond the practical questions I ask to prove a candidate isn't lying about being a network engineer, I've learned through the years that many other things/indicators tend to point towards a person's chance of being a success. And hiring a person who will be part of a team can be very different than the engineer who can pretty-much operate on his/her own.

THAT'S why I encourage everybody to highlight and integrate those intangibles like being a Veteran (a combat veteran being even better), an Eagle Scout, a coach of sports, into their resume and interview. Yeah, it matters, and it matters a lot.

I used to think of things like CCIE, Ivy league schools, and all that jazz first, now it's just a part of a much larger package..
So you would hire an eagle scout combat vet who kept the network up by blowing sand out of the switches in Afghanistan over a CCIE?
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:04 PM   #54
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THAT'S why I encourage everybody to highlight and integrate those intangibles like being a Veteran (a combat veteran being even better), an Eagle Scout, a coach of sports, into their resume and interview. Yeah, it matters, and it matters a lot.
No offense but putting that stuff in a resume is wasted space. Mine is 3 pages long. This is very bad advice.

What is more key is putting every damn piece of software and skill you have in the resume for the search to find you. Put every piece of experience in there to satisfy HR and get the hiring manager to notice your resume. Make the resume specific to the job, not some boilerplate resume.

The interview can cover your personality and see if you would be a good fit for the team. Resume space is too valuable.

There are at least 4 techs on this site who were having trouble getting recruiters and job board searches to find them. After I showed them my resume and told them about bot searches etc. They all had recruiters calling them within days.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:18 PM   #55
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I am beginning this fall to pursue a degree in Computer Science for Computer Systems Management. How would I go about getting the experience need to make sure once I get out of school I could use my degree?
Internships. If your professors don't hate you, they'd probably know where to score one.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:26 PM   #56
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No offense but putting that stuff in a resume is wasted space. Mine is 3 pages long. This is very bad advice.

What is more key is putting every damn piece of software and skill you have in the resume for the search to find you. Put every piece of experience in there to satisfy HR and get the hiring manager to notice your resume. Make the resume specific to the job, not some boilerplate resume.

The interview can cover your personality and see if you would be a good fit for the team. Resume space is too valuable.

There are at least 4 techs on this site who were having trouble getting recruiters and job board searches to find them. After I showed them my resume and told them about bot searches etc. They all had recruiters calling them within days.
Truth

I still get random recruiter emails from a resume that was submitted to career builder / monster 7 years ago. I know because it goes to an old email account.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:41 PM   #57
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So you would hire an eagle scout combat vet who kept the network up by blowing sand out of the switches in Afghanistan over a CCIE?
It depends... First, like it or not, don't think today's CCIEs are quite the same as they were in the early 90s. Just look at the difference in lab today compared to what it was in the early 90s (if you're that old) and you'll probably agree. Add to that Cisco has diversified the certification, perhaps by need, and today you're left wondering which one you can affort to have on staff. Not that that's bad, but usually at the price of a CCIE, you want a Cisco SME, not a Cisco Wireless SME. And I've seen a growing trend in these newer CCIEs saying they're uncomfortable swimming outside of their lane.

I'm not saying they're bad, they're great, I'm just saying their CCIE doesn't make them God's gift. That might have more to do with bootcamps than anything, but it is what it is.

As for hiring a vet or an Eagle scout over a CCIE, I have. While there is no one single truth I've found that the most recent CCIEs have more arrogance about them than those in, let's say, the 90s. So if I've got a position that needs a leader, you dam right that a combat vet, a person who's coached kids (herded cats!), and Eagle Scout - somebody who's shown that s/he might have the people skills to implement Dot1x in the larger community instead of just knowing the commands on the network side - yeah that's far more important. And few people outside of the TAC or large communications companies get to focus on one part of the network every day of rhe year; and they have to play well with other parts of the community.

So, if I'm hiring a pure 1-part-of-the-network-spectrum person (less than 10% of most staffs) certifications might be 75% of it. If I'm hiring the rest of the community they factor in less, perhaps a lot less.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:53 PM   #58
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It depends... First, like it or not, don't think today's CCIEs are quite the same as they were in the early 90s. Just look at the difference in lab today compared to what it was in the early 90s (if you're that old) and you'll probably agree. Add to that Cisco has diversified the certification, perhaps by need, and today you're left wondering which one you can affort to have on staff. Not that that's bad, but usually at the price of a CCIE, you want a Cisco SME, not a Cisco Wireless SME. And I've seen a growing trend in these newer CCIEs saying they're uncomfortable swimming outside of their lane.

I'm not saying they're bad, they're great, I'm just saying their CCIE doesn't make them God's gift. That might have more to do with bootcamps than anything, but it is what it is.

As for hiring a vet or an Eagle scout over a CCIE, I have. While there is no one single truth I've found that the most recent CCIEs have more arrogance about them than those in, let's say, the 90s. So if I've got a position that needs a leader, you dam right that a combat vet, a person who's coached kids (herded cats!), and Eagle Scout - somebody who's shown that s/he might have the people skills to implement Dot1x in the larger community instead of just knowing the commands on the network side - yeah that's far more important. And few people outside of the TAC or large communications companies get to focus on one part of the network every day of rhe year; and they have to play well with other parts of the community.

So, if I'm hiring a pure 1-part-of-the-network-spectrum person (less than 10% of most staffs) certifications might be 75% of it. If I'm hiring the rest of the community they factor in less, perhaps a lot less.
That's great information, thanks for sharing.

I met a CCIE voice that was dumb as **** about anything beyond cucm. It was amazing to me that this person held the CCIE. Still cannot believe it. I even verified his CCIE number but still couldn't believe it. Dumb as **** at anything beyond the specialization.

What your saying does make sense but for network stability I would take a gifted ccnp with a rough attitude that knows his shit.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:21 PM   #59
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That's great information, thanks for sharing.

I met a CCIE voice that was dumb as **** about anything beyond cucm. It was amazing to me that this person held the CCIE. Still cannot believe it. I even verified his CCIE number but still couldn't believe it. Dumb as **** at anything beyond the specialization.

What your saying does make sense but for network stability I would take a gifted ccnp with a rough attitude that knows his shit.
Give me a person with basic networking understanding (been around it for a while), a great attitude, and some demonstrated skills with people, and I can have a CCNP in less than a year.

Back in the 90s networking was just fun as hell, and it's still the most fun part of IT IMO.

My latest thing is a conservative's effort in bringing "diversity" into our field. I've seen these great, bright, and knowledgeable internal women and minorities thinking the bilge of the ship, the road, the backbone, wasn't their's to be part of. And while I'm fair (and I'm VERY fair) I've brought a number into the community and they love it. Many love the new environment they work in... Less IT bullshit... Yeah, they know before they get into it that it's not the a place where they'll not have to listen to non-so-PC conversation, but so far they've all been awesome. And to say the least, they aren't women who are hard on the eyes. So it's been a great deal, the community has a long-missing part of the conversation at the bar when we travel.

So yeah, many of the newer CCIEs aren't what the old-school CCIEs are/were, but it's just a sign of the times...

Rock on doode...
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:08 PM   #60
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I am beginning this fall to pursue a degree in Computer Science for Computer Systems Management. How would I go about getting the experience need to make sure once I get out of school I could use my degree?
Thats the hard part. You can't find work without experience and just how the hell are you suppose to get experience?

What you need to do is go to non-profits and volunteer to help out for free. Work at the help desk at your college. Internships are great, if you can find and get one. If your in KC, go work temp in tax season at H&R Block. What your getting paid is not important. Without experience you are dead in the water. Get the experience and your golden.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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