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View Poll Results: Will these steps benefit you or your family?
No pre-existing conditions. 18 34.62%
No cap on benefits. 16 30.77%
Insurance companies can't drop you or your family if they get sick. 14 26.92%
Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26. 11 21.15%
Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund. 18 34.62%
More preventive services will be free. 16 30.77%
Screw Obamacare 33 63.46%
Gaz says I'm indifferent 3 5.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-03-2013, 07:06 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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Will these Obamacare steps benefit you or your family?

Will these steps benefit you or your family?

  1. No pre-existing conditions.
  2. No cap on benefits. If I or a member of my family need to battle cancer, they will get the help they need.
  3. Insurance companies can't drop me or my family if we get sick.
  4. Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26.
  5. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund.
  6. A shitload of preventive services will be free. Googled the list.http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskf...uspsabrecs.htm

Spin off from another thread. Going to make this a private poll
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #151
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Dick Durbin is finally waking up. He is calling for major changes to ObamaCare. When Dickie runs away from Obama it shows how bad OCare is. And how huge this shitstain is on democrats running for office.
What changes did he call for?
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:44 PM   #152
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The issue is government imposed minimum standards. The market has not failed on this, explain what the problem is with current health insurance coverage standards?
One of the biggest problems is that people are ALREADY getting health care but not paying for it.....

Anyone can (and does) walk into ER's and get treated for any number of minor and major maladies with no ability to pay for the service.

These costs drive up the costs from the hospitials which drive uip the costs for health care...

Something like obama care is just trying to get people who have no insurance, into the insurance pool so that 1) they will be covered by a minimal policy in case of disaster and 2) to get more people into the insurance pool.

Everyone is acting like Obama care is or will cause people to get care that didn't get it before. The is the biggest scare tactic/lie of all...these people already get it...

All obama care is doing is trying to re-structure the coverage to try and lower costs or at least slow the rise....

No one who is against Obama care seems to want to acknowledge that people with no insurance already get care, without paying for it...and dont want to at least give some credit to the program for trying to address these problems by reducing ER care, by encouraging check ups and penalizing non emergencies who go to the ER...etc...

In life, at least my experience, nothing complex is ALL good or ALL bad...The people who just say 'Obamacare sux' with no further data or acknowleding the positives are just as stupid/ignorant/brainwashed as the people who say 'obamacare is teh AWESOME and Obama is GOD"

Truth ALWAYS lies in between extremes when it comes to very complicated issues with multiple variables. (from my experience)
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:45 PM   #153
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What changes did he call for?
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“What we need to have is a better definition of a full-time worker and how many will be affected by it,” Durbin said. “And the health insurance policy itself, the provisions that are included in it.”

Durbin is calling on Republicans to help change and improve Obamacare but many of them want to repeal it first and start over.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:14 PM   #154
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Well that's boring. That is basically the Obama admin's position, too.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:30 AM   #155
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I wrote this a few days ago when this thread was created and finally decided to post it because ****it.

This is just ****ing amazing. If the media would have covered this correctly and if the leftist in this country would not have lied (or at least hid the truth) then ignorant polls like this would be unnecessary. I will try to explain this one more time.
1. No pre-existing conditions.
Pre-ObamaCare: Every state that I know of had pre-existing condition rules that must be followed. There was no pre-existing penalty if a group moved from insurance plan to insurance plan. Period. Pre-existing limitations were for single insured coverage or groups that never had coverage before. Some states allow single insureds to move from plan to plan without pre-existing penalties. The limitations have a very limited illness scope and a short duration before full benefits must apply. This keeps people from gaming the system by only getting insurance when they are sick.
ObamaCare: No pre-existing limitations (for right now). People are going to game the system. The gamers are not going to get insurance just pay the penalty only if they file a tax return, which no gamers will. They will get sick and then get coverage from the government. Eventually, there will be benefit limitations put on gamers that will essentially be the same or worse than the current pre-existing rules. But that’s OK because the leftist got their way by having the government control healthcare.

2. No cap on benefits.
Pre-ObamaCare: Most states require a minimum of 5 million dollar lifetime benefit. A couple of states have 2 or 3 million. This is sufficient because most groups move from plan to plan to take care of changing needs and premium rate purposes. Single insureds usually have close to the same benefits. Insurance companies are not allowed to deny service that has been deemed medically appropriate. They can only limit benefits on experimental or medically inappropriate treatments. By the way, normally the MediCare rules are used to determine this. Yes that’s right. MediCare has these limitations as well. Additionally, I have been in the business for over 20 years and have never seen anyone get close to their limit and survive. Period. But that’s OK because the leftist got their way by having the government control healthcare.
ObamaCare: No lifetime limitation. ObamaCare is just going to limit what they will pay for to make this a mute point. The insured will not have the choice to run up a 3 million dollar bill unless they pay for it themselves. Experiment and medically inappropriate procedures will not be allowed. Also, once an experimental treatment is used, if future non-experimental claims can be tied to the experimental treatment then those claims will also be considered ineligible for benefits.

3. Insurance companies can't drop me or my family if we get sick.
Pre-ObamaCare: As long as the insurance coverage was true medical coverage, not some temporary insurance product, this is illegal. You cannot be termed because of a loss. You can have your rates adjusted at renewal time but that has stringent limitations as well. This is a strawman argument. The last thing an insurance company wants is to get into a pissing match with state’s department of insurance. They risk losing millions both defending themselves and actually being banned from doing business in the state. But that’s OK because the leftist got their way by having the government control healthcare.
ObamaCare: The government, like an insurance company will not cancel coverage. But with ObamaCare, you will have the crap monitored out of you if you are ill just like I mention in #2.

4. Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26.
Pre-ObamaCare: Most states require that an insurance company cover “dependents” that are full time students until age 22. In Utah, its age 27. Some states do not have an age limitation as long as the “dependent” is a full time student. To me, this is reasonable.
ObamaCare: Dependents are covered until age 26 even if they are insurable through their own employment, spouses employment or some other means. These dependents are the same people that ObamaCare is saying will get their own coverage to help fund the insurance pool for the older more expensive insureds. Yep, you read that right. The same people who can be covered under their parent or guardian for a minimal premium are the same people on which ObamaCare is counting on getting their own insurance or pay the “Tax” penalty to help fund ObamaCare. This will be fixed because this makes no sense. These wizards will amend the ACA to dependents that are full time students before it’s all over. But that’s OK because the leftist got their way by having the government control healthcare.

5. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund.
Pre-ObamaCare: A standard in the insurance industry is 70 to 75% loss ratio. If the ratio is lower than that they will not sell the insurance because the premium rates will be too high and will not be competitive. If the ratio is greater than that, say 80 to 85% then the insurance company is charging too little and, by industry rating, would not be a financially solid plan. The following are just some of the expenses that are not considered healthcare expenses:
  • State Premium Taxes (can be as much as 10%)
  • State and Federal Compliance and Licensing
  • Reserve Funding for future claims expenses. (As mandated by the state)
  • Marketing, Sales and Agent Commissions
  • Claim, Premium and Billing Administration
  • Litigation on fraud or compliance issues
ObamaCare: What part of the “Non Healthcare” expenses are going to be cut in order for the insurance company to comply with the 80-85 rule? Are the states going to forfeit the premium tax? Are the insurance companies going to get sued less? Will the states reduce the reserve funding requirements which will expose the insurance company to insolvency if a few million dollar claims are incurred? Are the state and fed rules not going to require licensing and compliance? Surely there will be no expense in administering claims and collecting premium. But that’s OK because the leftist got their way by having the government control healthcare.
There is a mass movement towards finding other ways to provide coverage for their customers by the insurance companies. They are finding ways to provide self funding mechanisms for small to medium sized groups. These methods fall outside Obamacare. They are more expensive than traditional insurance but less expensive than the alternative of being a compliant with ObamaCare. This is going to screw up ObamaCare’s funding model because the “healthy” groups will find a way around it. At least they will until the ACA is amended to require these groups participation. But that’s OK because the leftist got their way by having the government control healthcare.

6. A shitload of preventive services will be free.
Pre-ObamaCare: This is another strawman argument. Most states already mandate these benefits. This is a huge factor why insurance cost so much. If the auto insurance industry paid for oil changes and tires, rates would sky rocket too.
ObamaCare: Yaaayyy. We are heroes because we mandated coverage for things that were already covered. All we did was say it was free and the public bought it. But that’s OK because the leftist got their way by having the government control healthcare.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:42 AM   #156
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Pre-ObamaCare: This is another strawman argument. Most states already mandate these benefits. This is a huge factor why insurance cost so much. If the auto insurance industry paid for oil changes and tires, rates would sky rocket too.
That's what I've been saying in different words, and it makes it less like insurance ( to prevent being wiped out) and more like a fascist-based entitlement program.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:44 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
One of the biggest problems is that people are ALREADY getting health care but not paying for it.....

Anyone can (and does) walk into ER's and get treated for any number of minor and major maladies with no ability to pay for the service.

These costs drive up the costs from the hospitials which drive uip the costs for health care...

Something like obama care is just trying to get people who have no insurance, into the insurance pool so that 1) they will be covered by a minimal policy in case of disaster and 2) to get more people into the insurance pool.

Everyone is acting like Obama care is or will cause people to get care that didn't get it before. The is the biggest scare tactic/lie of all...these people already get it...

All obama care is doing is trying to re-structure the coverage to try and lower costs or at least slow the rise....

No one who is against Obama care seems to want to acknowledge that people with no insurance already get care, without paying for it...and dont want to at least give some credit to the program for trying to address these problems by reducing ER care, by encouraging check ups and penalizing non emergencies who go to the ER...etc...

In life, at least my experience, nothing complex is ALL good or ALL bad...The people who just say 'Obamacare sux' with no further data or acknowleding the positives are just as stupid/ignorant/brainwashed as the people who say 'obamacare is teh AWESOME and Obama is GOD"

Truth ALWAYS lies in between extremes when it comes to very complicated issues with multiple variables. (from my experience)
Which is why you do not lean heavily to the right. You support govt intervention in markets, which ALWAYS makes things worse.

And the idea that truth "ALWAYS" lies between extremes is a fallacious cliche. Sometimes the truth is in-between but sometimes it is NOT.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:04 PM   #158
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I wrote this a few days ago when this thread was created and finally decided to post it because ****it.
It's always good to see BRC and his fellow leftists owned by someone who knows what they're talking about.

Of course, they're probably just thinking, "that’s OK because I got my way by having the government control healthcare", without really caring whether or not it will ever really benefit anyone.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:56 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Velvet_Jones View Post
6 points that do not even address the fundamental issues
Nothing about exchanges?

Nothing about bringing everyone into the pool , even healthy young people?

Nothing about standardizing plans and language so that consumers can easily switch / shop?

Nothing about currently isolated individuals banning together to have the power to negotriate group rates at various different companies?


I mean what good is your analysis really, when you fail to even address the things that will help the majority of people the most?

Your analysis is stuck on some tangental details and not looking at the core, big picture ideas.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:01 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
1)Which is why you do not lean heavily to the right. You support govt intervention in markets, which ALWAYS makes things worse.

2)And the idea that truth "ALWAYS" lies between extremes is a fallacious cliche. Sometimes the truth is in-between but sometimes it is NOT.
1)If you mean that I support some regulation of certain enterprises (banking, securities, health care..among the most important) than I have to admit guilt. We have seen what happens with zero regulation, and it isn't good for the consumer.

2) that was just an anecdote from my life....I can't think of a single example of a COMPLEX issue where the solution wasn't in a grey area.......for more simple problems, I agree...sometimes the truth can be black or white. But maybe you can give a few examples of very complicated issues where the truth is an extreme position all the way to the left or an extreme position all the way to the right.....
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:05 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Nothing about exchanges?

Nothing about bringing everyone into the pool , even healthy young people?

Nothing about standardizing plans and language so that consumers can easily switch / shop?

Nothing about currently isolated individuals banning together to have the power to negotriate group rates at various different companies?


I mean what good is your analysis really, when you fail to even address the things that will help the majority of people the most?

Your analysis is stuck on some tangental details and not looking at the core, big picture ideas.
In fairness to Velvet, he's addressing the details, tangential or otherwise, that this thread is about.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:48 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Nothing about exchanges?

Nothing about bringing everyone into the pool , even healthy young people?

Nothing about standardizing plans and language so that consumers can easily switch / shop?

Nothing about currently isolated individuals banning together to have the power to negotriate group rates at various different companies?


I mean what good is your analysis really, when you fail to even address the things that will help the majority of people the most?

Your analysis is stuck on some tangental details and not looking at the core, big picture ideas.

Dear God I would love for you to expand on this so we can all learn more.

Getting everyone into the pool is a great place to start. And the isolated folk coming together to like negotiate.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #163
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In fairness to Velvet, he's addressing the details, tangential or otherwise, that this thread is about.
except that he has cherry picked some of the details that aren't really the core of the matter...

I mean I am all in favor of looking at details, but why not look at the details of the things I have mentioned instead of these particular ones ( which are much more minor).
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:56 PM   #164
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Dear God I would love for you to expand on this so we can all learn more.

Getting everyone into the pool is a great place to start. And the isolated folk coming together to like negotiate.
So are you serious or do you not actually understand insurance pools and group rates versus individual rates?

Have you ever had to shop for a health plan?
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:58 PM   #165
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except that he has cherry picked some of the details that aren't really the core of the matter...

I mean I am all in favor of looking at details, but why not look at the details of the things I have mentioned instead of these particular obes ( which are much more minor).
He's responding directly to the original post. That's not cherry picking, that's staying focused on the topic. To the extent any cherry picking took place, it was BigRedChief who started the thread.
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patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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