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View Poll Results: Will these steps benefit you or your family?
No pre-existing conditions. 18 34.62%
No cap on benefits. 16 30.77%
Insurance companies can't drop you or your family if they get sick. 14 26.92%
Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26. 11 21.15%
Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund. 18 34.62%
More preventive services will be free. 16 30.77%
Screw Obamacare 33 63.46%
Gaz says I'm indifferent 3 5.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-03-2013, 07:06 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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Will these Obamacare steps benefit you or your family?

Will these steps benefit you or your family?

  1. No pre-existing conditions.
  2. No cap on benefits. If I or a member of my family need to battle cancer, they will get the help they need.
  3. Insurance companies can't drop me or my family if we get sick.
  4. Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26.
  5. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund.
  6. A shitload of preventive services will be free. Googled the list.http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskf...uspsabrecs.htm

Spin off from another thread. Going to make this a private poll
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:23 AM   #181
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I would rather use the new form of exchanges yes....Through an independent agent I cannot get a group rate currently. Also, the options I have through my agent are very very limited. I want more options and more buying power.
You apparently are not using an independent agent you are using a "captive agent".

Also, regardless of buying power of a group, individual coverage is more expensive to administrate than group business so buying power is less of an issue.

Or you could join a MET.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:38 AM   #182
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Health care is an area where I have to admit my devotion to capitalism sometimes doesn’t garner the best results for society. It seems to me that our medical “industry” (Hospitals, Doctors, Pharmaceutical companies and so forth) have gone extensively into the treatment of illness and not the eradication of it.

It is far more profitable to find something that a person has to take every day for the rest of their life to treat an illness than it is to find a drug or treatment that actually cures it. This of course makes perfect business sense but still kinda sucks for the greater good of the community. Just thinking out load.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:40 AM   #183
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The free-market would garner the best results for society. It is just ignorance of market economics to say otherwise. It also makes people act more responsibly regarding their health.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:16 AM   #184
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In most cases I agree with your Libertarian take on things and have no doubt our country would benefit greatly from more freedom, less government and considerably less meddling in the affairs of other countries but, sometimes what seems good on paper just doesn’t seem to pan out in the real world.

It is far more profitable for the Pharma industry to treat than cure. I don’t resent or blame them for this but, I know people would prefer to be cured instead of managed and treated. Our current medical system seems to be some unholy blending of socialism and capitalism that just keeps costing more to the average joe with mediocre results.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:35 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
In most cases I agree with your Libertarian take on things and have no doubt our country would benefit greatly from more freedom, less government and considerably less meddling in the affairs of other countries but, sometimes what seems good on paper just doesn’t seem to pan out in the real world.

It is far more profitable for the Pharma industry to treat than cure. I don’t resent or blame them for this but, I know people would prefer to be cured instead of managed and treated. Our current medical system seems to be some unholy blending of socialism and capitalism that just keeps costing more to the average joe with mediocre results.
I'm not a Libertarian. That was not a Libertarian take either. It was a free-market take. Conservatives support free-market economics too.

The reason Big Pharma dominates is because they're connected to govt power as is the AMA. That's a big reason why allopathic medicine dominates. It reduces competition. So that is not a free-market driven phenomena. Markets just get the blame. This is because the left are unable to recognize a market driven phenomena because they don't understand free-market economics. Same for many others. They see cartel capitalism aka neo-mercantilism aka corporatism and call that free-markets. This is why you see me criticize education and media for these misconceptions.

Besides, the entire idea of the govt pushing HMOs back in the 1970s was to get preventative measures used more. How'd that non-market phenomena work out? Govt solutions rarely deliver the results they promise. They usually have far more unintended consequences.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:37 PM   #186
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No I'm not saying that. I'm saying they are already in the pool. The vast majority of people in that age range have insurance already are not "added" to the pool but rather "remain" in the pool. You act like people 27-35 never have insurance. I'm saying most do.
Yes "most" do but that isn't the point. Most people in EVERY age class have insurance...

The point is the % of people 27-35 who are uninsured is higher than almost every other category, and getting them ALL in the pool will help costs:




Notice the DIFFERENCE between your version of truth and the reality? They only make up 14% of the population yet they are over 25% of the uninsured. Thats a HUGE difference man. Way bigger than ANY other category.

How do you explain this? Isn't the 27-34 category the absoluite ideal category to be trying to get in the pool based on the data?

You don't see the problem here?




















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Old 07-13-2013, 07:02 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Yes "most" do but that isn't the point. Most people in EVERY age class have insurance...

The point is the % of people 27-35 who are uninsured is higher than almost every other category, and getting them ALL in the pool will help costs:




Notice the DIFFERENCE between your version of truth and the reality? They only make up 14% of the population yet they are over 25% of the uninsured. Thats a HUGE difference man. Way bigger than ANY other category.

How do you explain this? Isn't the 27-34 category the absoluite ideal category to be trying to get in the pool based on the data?

You don't see the problem here?




















.
Even the CBO predicts in 10 years there will still be at least 30 million people uninsured, and that number is probably ridiculously low. As more employers drop coverage there will be a percentage of employees who don't elect to buy any.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:20 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Yes "most" do but that isn't the point. Most people in EVERY age class have insurance...

The point is the % of people 27-35 who are uninsured is higher than almost every other category, and getting them ALL in the pool will help costs:




Notice the DIFFERENCE between your version of truth and the reality? They only make up 14% of the population yet they are over 25% of the uninsured. Thats a HUGE difference man. Way bigger than ANY other category.

How do you explain this? Isn't the 27-34 category the absoluite ideal category to be trying to get in the pool based on the data?

You don't see the problem here?
OK. Not I don’t have a problem with this because I understand how statistics work and that graph only describes the obvious from the view point of the census bureau.

Some other factors not considered are:

Lets talk about that target age bracket, 25-34. Here are a few things that you need to also consider.

• In 2011, with the exception of 16-19, age bracket 25-34 had the highest unemployment rate at around 10%.

• In 2011, what was the median income per household compared to the following?:

• Last Census – 8.9% less
• Last Recession – 8.1% less

• What percentage of uninsured doing so voluntarily? 2% (This means that about 1 million people are uninsured on purpose)

• Out of the uninsured population, what percentage is considered poor as defined by the USG? 28%
• Out of the uninsured population, what percentage has household incomes exceeding $50000. 30% Of that 30%, half are aged 25-34.

• What percentage of uninsured have household income above $75000? 7%

• The percentage of the uninsured population that is eligible for assistance programs, such as Medicaid, that don’t seek that assistance. 25.3%

• The percentage of the US population are citizens. 93%
• The percentage of the US population are Non-citizens. 7%

• The percentage of the US uninsured are citizens. 55%
• The percentage of the US uninsured are Non-citizens. 45%

• Out of the 45% uninsured Non-citizens, The percentage are that are aged 25-34. 50%
• Out of the 45% uninsured Non-citizens, how many actually file tax returns? I bet it is a minimal. The IRS doesn’t rally like to advertise this.

• With this in mind, how can the IRS collect the premiums for the government sponsored healthcare without requiring a withholding from payrolls because of this?

Given just this little information, do you still agree with the notion that adding the uninsured aged 25-34 to the insured pool will save the day? I don’t. If you study it further, you will see that is not at all the problem.

I have gathered some of this information from many different sources but most of the data can be accessed from the following data sources.

• US Census
• Kaiser Family Foundation
• Pfizer
• Institute of Medicine
• National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation

In particular, you should take a look at the study done by Pfizer which results are summarized in the paper “Profile of Uninsured Persons in the United States”. It’s pretty interesting.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:23 PM   #189
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OK. Not I don’t have a problem with this because I understand how statistics work and that graph only describes the obvious from the view point of the census bureau.
Ummm...Yes...the fact that 25-34 year olds only make up 14% of the population yet make up a staggering 24% of the UNINSURED people.....far more over=represented than any age category...and way different than what you originally posted.

I agree this is obvious.

I'm glad you do too.
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:58 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Ummm...Yes...the fact that 25-34 year olds only make up 14% of the population yet make up a staggering 24% of the UNINSURED people.....far more over=represented than any age category...and way different than what you originally posted.

I agree this is obvious.

I'm glad you do too.
dude you got a pretty bad MATH BEAT DOWN in his last post.

Yet again we come back to the myth of these droves of affluent young leeches on the system.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:36 PM   #191
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dude you got a pretty bad MATH BEAT DOWN in his last post.

I'm glad you think its a myth that nearly 25% of people that are age 25-34 are uninsured....while being only about 15% of the population.

I'm glad you are too stupid to understand the positive aspects of getting these people into the insurance pool.

I'm glad you are representative of those who oppose doing something to change health care, because frankly, if you are all this stupid then there isn't much to worry about in terms of your opposition.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:50 PM   #192
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I'm glad you think its a myth that nearly 25% of people that are age 25-34 are uninsured....while being only about 15% of the population.

I'm glad you are too stupid to understand the positive aspects of getting these people into the insurance pool.

I'm glad you are representative of those who oppose doing something to change health care, because frankly, if you are all this stupid then there isn't much to worry about in terms of your opposition.
again, you have a massive blindspot on this issue and it somehow is effecting your reading comprehension and logic skills. Did you not see the word AFFLUENT? (I even BOLDED it so you wouldn't miss it) The post by Velvet_Jones basically showed how Obamacare isn't going to magically cause the 25-34 year old crowd to get jobs so they can pay into the healthcare system. The MYTH that you keep trying to propagate is that there are all these 25-34 year olds who can AFFORD health insurance and simply don't get it out of some twisted short sighted logic. Sure, there are a few people like that but nothing like the mass numbers you are trying to pretend are out there.

I know a number of people in that age group without health insurance. I do not know ONE, not ONE that is all of a sudden going to go out and pay for health insurance because of Obamacare. The dumb ones think that under Obamacare they will somehow get free health care magically. Fact is, these people make too much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to be able to afford decent health insurance. Explain to me how these people will all of a sudden magically find more income to pay into the system like you want?

That is the MYTH... try to keep up.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:01 AM   #193
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That is the MYTH... try to keep up.
We keep going around in circles.....these people are ALREADY in the health "care" system. Everyone is.

You are just too stupid to know the difference between health care & getting them in the insurance pool to improve the pool as a whole versus having only older and sicker people in the pool.

We are ALREADY paying for all of the non payers health care. How many ****ing times does that need to be explained to you?

These measures are simply cost cutting measures put forth by people who believe it is better to have good preventative care for a LIFETIME than suddenly have shitty old sick people coming into the insurance pool combined with people using the ER who do not have insurance and never pay the bill.

But hey your "math" skills are impressive...keep adding it up on your stubby retarded fingers until you get the idea that no one is denied health CARE in this country.

Maybe if we get a few more young geniouses like you , we can finally keep the status quo we have always dreamed of.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:23 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
We keep going around in circles.....these people are ALREADY in the health "care" system. Everyone is.

You are just too stupid to know the difference between health care & getting them in the insurance pool to improve the pool as a whole versus having only older and sicker people in the pool.

We are ALREADY paying for all of the non payers health care. How many ****ing times does that need to be explained to you?

These measures are simply cost cutting measures put forth by people who believe it is better to have good preventative care for a LIFETIME than suddenly have shitty old sick people coming into the insurance pool combined with people using the ER who do not have insurance and never pay the bill.

But hey your "math" skills are impressive...keep adding it up on your stubby retarded fingers until you get the idea that no one is denied health CARE in this country.

Maybe if we get a few more young geniouses like you , we can finally keep the status quo we have always dreamed of.
Again you have missed the POINT. Getting them in the insurance pool does no good if they aren't PAYING into the insurance pool. Obamacare can't magically give them money to PAY into the pool. You have this massive blindspot that leads you to think that these people can AFFORD healthcare now and simply refuse to get it... that simply isn't true for the VAST VAST majority of them. I'm at a loss to explain this any simpler to you.

So, yes, we do pay for them now(not as much as you seem to think but sure we do to a degree).. and under Obamacare we will CONTINUE to pay for them.

NOW do you get it?

(oh and I LOLed at "stubby retarded fingers", nice one)
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:51 AM   #195
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Again you have missed the POINT. Getting them in the insurance pool does no good if they aren't PAYING into the insurance pool.
Are you sure about that?

From my understanding, paying for them to be in the pool up front gets them lower rates and makes it so they have access to less expensive types of medical care other than the ER....which would lower their costs....

Isn't paying for prevention cheaper than paying for cures?

Keep in mind these people will be getting CARE anyway...we arte just trying to lower costs.

I know its hard to concentrate with your assbergers but please try and focus for just a minute.
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