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View Poll Results: Will these steps benefit you or your family?
No pre-existing conditions. 18 34.62%
No cap on benefits. 16 30.77%
Insurance companies can't drop you or your family if they get sick. 14 26.92%
Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26. 11 21.15%
Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund. 18 34.62%
More preventive services will be free. 16 30.77%
Screw Obamacare 33 63.46%
Gaz says I'm indifferent 3 5.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-03-2013, 07:06 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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Will these Obamacare steps benefit you or your family?

Will these steps benefit you or your family?

  1. No pre-existing conditions.
  2. No cap on benefits. If I or a member of my family need to battle cancer, they will get the help they need.
  3. Insurance companies can't drop me or my family if we get sick.
  4. Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26.
  5. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund.
  6. A shitload of preventive services will be free. Googled the list.http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskf...uspsabrecs.htm

Spin off from another thread. Going to make this a private poll
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:40 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Isn't paying for prevention cheaper than paying for cures?
No. Sometimes it is and sometimes it's cheaper to wait and pay for the cure. I have no confidence that the government can effectively determine which is which.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Are you sure about that?
I'm 1000% sure on this.

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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
From my understanding, paying for them to be in the pool up front gets them lower rates and makes it so they have access to less expensive types of medical care other than the ER....which would lower their costs....

Isn't paying for prevention cheaper than paying for cures?

Keep in mind these people will be getting CARE anyway...we arte just trying to lower costs.

I know its hard to concentrate with your assbergers but please try and focus for just a minute.
Nope. For healthy 25-34 year olds this is only adding cost to the system. The vast majority of them get no benefit from the preventative care you are talking about. Yes, we would be better off if they took care of themselves so that they didn't end up with problems as they got older... but please explain to me how Obamacare will force these people to change their diet or exercise more, etc? You have already claimed that they are short sighted ignorant kids anyway... how will giving them free access to doctors visits change that? You are ignoring human nature. As I explained way earlier, in a perfect hippie world where we all hold hands and do what is best... maybe... maybe you have a point. That isn't even close to the REAL WORLD. Unless of course you want Obamacare to MANDATE that these people go to the doctor X number of times a year AND we actively POLICE their behavior.

You are working off a ton of assumptions which go against every statistic we have about these people's behavior and choices. You can rant all you want that these things need to change.. fine... but Obamacare doesn't do a damn thing to make them change.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:16 PM   #198
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Having worked in private sector insurance, I completely disagree with the premise that people can't afford insurance. The problem isn't they don't think they'll get hurt, so they don't feel like they have to pay for it. The same people who complain about these payments are often the ones buying expensive cell phones, houses they can't afford, etc....

The problem is and continues to be that those who are uninsured can still consume "insured services" like ER and in many cases, they don't pay the full bill. When young people do that, they become freeloaders and everyone who is legitimately paying into the insurance pool suffers. That's a big problem.

Insurance is about spreading risk. Imagine how expensive car insurance would be if you took all the safe drivers out. Why do you think insurnace companies are spending a shitload of advertising dollars to talk about safe driver rewards?


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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I'm 1000% sure on this.



Nope. For healthy 25-34 year olds this is only adding cost to the system. The vast majority of them get no benefit from the preventative care you are talking about. Yes, we would be better off if they took care of themselves so that they didn't end up with problems as they got older... but please explain to me how Obamacare will force these people to change their diet or exercise more, etc? You have already claimed that they are short sighted ignorant kids anyway... how will giving them free access to doctors visits change that? You are ignoring human nature. As I explained way earlier, in a perfect hippie world where we all hold hands and do what is best... maybe... maybe you have a point. That isn't even close to the REAL WORLD. Unless of course you want Obamacare to MANDATE that these people go to the doctor X number of times a year AND we actively POLICE their behavior.

You are working off a ton of assumptions which go against every statistic we have about these people's behavior and choices. You can rant all you want that these things need to change.. fine... but Obamacare doesn't do a damn thing to make them change.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:20 PM   #199
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You apparently are not using an independent agent you are using a "captive agent".

Also, regardless of buying power of a group, individual coverage is more expensive to administrate than group business so buying power is less of an issue.

Or you could join a MET.
Yup, this is absolutely true. Independent agents are essentially exchanges with a hefty commission for servicing. They also have "comparative raters" which allow you to quote multiple insurance carriers in one view.

I just talked to a consultant today. Is working on a health care project for Obamacare. He said that the systems in the public sector are an absolute embarrassment, and the people are generally lazy and unhelpful. I am going to laugh and cry at the same time when our genius politicians realize how ill-equipped we are from a technology standpoint to do this. Which is a shame, because this same idea muscled by private sector systems would be done a hell of a lot cheaper for taxpayers, much more effectively, and much more easy to maintain.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:28 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Having worked in private sector insurance, I completely disagree with the premise that people can't afford insurance. The problem isn't they don't think they'll get hurt, so they don't feel like they have to pay for it. The same people who complain about these payments are often the ones buying expensive cell phones, houses they can't afford, etc....

The problem is and continues to be that those who are uninsured can still consume "insured services" like ER and in many cases, they don't pay the full bill. When young people do that, they become freeloaders and everyone who is legitimately paying into the insurance pool suffers. That's a big problem.

Insurance is about spreading risk. Imagine how expensive car insurance would be if you took all the safe drivers out. Why do you think insurnace companies are spending a shitload of advertising dollars to talk about safe driver rewards?
And again, Obamacare does nothing to solve this issue. I do however disagree with you about people being able to afford insurance. The 25-34 year old crowd has a ton of unemployment right now. If you read Velvet's post you can see that the numbers don't add up to support the contention that there is the huge group of 25-34 year olds who can afford insurance and don't buy it and end up a burden on the system.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:51 PM   #201
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And again, Obamacare does nothing to solve this issue. I do however disagree with you about people being able to afford insurance. The 25-34 year old crowd has a ton of unemployment right now. If you read Velvet's post you can see that the numbers don't add up to support the contention that there is the huge group of 25-34 year olds who can afford insurance and don't buy it and end up a burden on the system.
Fair point.

It's a complicated question. It goes back to the moral dilemma of: "if you are uninsured, should you be allowed to use ER services?" If the answer is "yes", then are we comfortable saying that legitimate payers of insurance should have to battle the higher health care costs to counterbalance this? If the answer is "no" then what do we do about it?

The fact is that most low-risk people in the insurance pool would dramatically lower rates. And reducing # of uninsured ER visitors dramatically improves health care costs, which hopefully also leads to better rates and coverage for legit insureds. That being the case, what is the solution to get more of these people in? I'm not saying individual mandate is the answer. Just looking for the alternative.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:52 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Fair point.

It's a complicated question. It goes back to the moral dilemma of: "if you are uninsured, should you be allowed to use ER services?" If the answer is "yes", then are we comfortable saying that legitimate payers of insurance should have to battle the higher health care costs to counterbalance this? If the answer is "no" then what do we do about it?
It will be higher no matter which way you want here.

Seriously, why are you even a Republican. You're a Progressive Democrat.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:00 PM   #203
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It will be higher no matter which way you want here.

Seriously, why are you even a Republican. You're a Progressive Democrat.
You have no concept of how insurance works. This isn't a public sector view. This is a common sense view and private sector health insurers would be ecstatic if they could get more of these people into their premium pool.

It doesn't fix all the problems, but it fixes one very big one.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:24 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
You have no concept of how insurance works.
Irrelevant to my point. I do know what insurance is supposed to be—insurance. Not provide all manner of services.



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It doesn't fix all the problems, but it fixes one very big one.
No it makes more problems.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:38 PM   #205
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Irrelevant to my point. I do know what insurance is supposed to be—insurance. Not provide all manner of services.
The theory of insurance is that the more people you have in your insurance pool, the more you can spread out risk, resulting in lower costs for everybody. Also, common sense tells you that when you take lower risk consumers out of the pool, then the average payout per policyholder increases, so everyone's premium goes up. So costs go up for everybody. The whole idea is that you pay into the system when you're young even if you don't have a lot of health claims, but those $'s you pay become worth it in the future when you start having health claims of your own.

I don't think an individual mandate is the answer. But there's got to be some kind of solution that fixes this, because it will translate into significant improvements in health care costs for each person on average.

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No it makes more problems.
Like immigration, people who play by the rules shouldn't be punished with higher costs to support those who don't. If young people consume ER services and, in many cases, don't pay those services off... then people legitimately paying into the system shouldn't be stuck with their bill. Unless you're proposing that we start denying anyone without insurance and ability to pay proper care.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:44 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
The theory of insurance is that the more people you have in your insurance pool, the more you can spread out risk, resulting in lower costs for everybody. Also, common sense tells you that when you take lower risk consumers out of the pool, then the average payout per policyholder increases, so everyone's premium goes up. So costs go up for everybody. The whole idea is that you pay into the system when you're young even if you don't have a lot of health claims, but those $'s you pay become worth it in the future when you start having health claims of your own.

I don't think an individual mandate is the answer. But there's got to be some kind of solution that fixes this, because it will translate into significant improvements in health care costs for each person on average.


Like immigration, people who play by the rules shouldn't be punished with higher costs to support those who don't. If young people consume ER services and, in many cases, don't pay those services off... then people legitimately paying into the system shouldn't be stuck with their bill. Unless you're proposing that we start denying anyone without insurance and ability to pay proper care.
I don't know what your problem is, but I've already addressed all those things in other threads. The ER is being used for free due to govt intervention mandating that. It's the govt intervention that causes the problems which keep requiring another intervention. So it's the govt interventions that are not the solution. I am not spending hours discussing it all with you all over again. You've become a Progressive bore.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:04 PM   #207
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I don't know what your problem is, but I've already addressed all those things in other threads. The ER is being used for free due to govt intervention mandating that. It's the govt intervention that causes the problems which keep requiring another intervention. So it's the govt interventions that are not the solution. I am not spending hours discussing it all with you all over again. You've become a Progressive bore.
The government intervention is there. You can either pretend it's not there and be satisfied with millions of dollars being drained from the system, or you can find a way to mitigate the cost. Inaction is not an option.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:06 PM   #208
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I argue against the govt intervention if'n you notice. It's the CAUSE of the problems.
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