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View Poll Results: Will these steps benefit you or your family?
No pre-existing conditions. 18 34.62%
No cap on benefits. 16 30.77%
Insurance companies can't drop you or your family if they get sick. 14 26.92%
Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26. 11 21.15%
Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund. 18 34.62%
More preventive services will be free. 16 30.77%
Screw Obamacare 33 63.46%
Gaz says I'm indifferent 3 5.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-03-2013, 07:06 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Will these Obamacare steps benefit you or your family?

Will these steps benefit you or your family?

  1. No pre-existing conditions.
  2. No cap on benefits. If I or a member of my family need to battle cancer, they will get the help they need.
  3. Insurance companies can't drop me or my family if we get sick.
  4. Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26.
  5. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund.
  6. A shitload of preventive services will be free. Googled the list.http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskf...uspsabrecs.htm

Spin off from another thread. Going to make this a private poll
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:47 PM   #16
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#5 really is hard to say is a benefit. In theory it should be but in reality rates will still rise (in almost every case this has been shown to be true so far) so you can't seriously count this one unless somehow your only goal is to see diminished profits for insurance companies and that will benefit you. Not sure how that works unless you have some scheme to short insurance stocks.

Oh and I'm healthy (knock on wood) and have no family to support so the rest don't do me any good at all.
As far as #5 goes, I have $400 in my pocket that I wouldn't have had before Obamacare. But thats because of who I work for. I think most companies are planning on keeping the money to offset future costs. That would be a benefit.

Health care costs are going to rise. They will keep going up forever. The idea is to lower the cost curve. Thats the best we can hope for.

It is short sighted of you. There are many scenarios where you may need health insurance. Plenty of young people need to battle cancer. You could be driving down the road and a drunk runs a red light and your in the hospital with brain trauma when your head hits the steering wheel. etc etc

One of the major problems with the current system is those who say I don't need insurance then one of the events I mentioned above happens and its our tax $'s that pay for their care.
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Last edited by BigRedChief; 07-03-2013 at 09:52 PM..
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:58 PM   #17
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As far as #5 goes, I have $400 in my pocket that I wouldn't have had before Obamacare. But thats because of who I work for. I think most companies are planning on keeping the money to offset future costs. That would be a benefit.

Health care costs are going to rise. They will keep going up forever. The idea is to lower the cost curve. Thats the best we can hope for.

It is short sighted of you. There are many scenarios where you may need health insurance. Plenty of young people need to battle cancer. You could be driving down the road and a drunk runs a red light and your in the hospital with brain trauma when your hear hit the steering wheel. etc etc

One of the major he problem with the current system is those who say I don't need insurance then one of the events I mentioned above happens and its our tax $'s that pay for their care.
I never said I don't have insurance? Where the hell do you get that from? I am saying that the benefits listed don't mean squat to me. Would you rather I lie to you about it?

You are also wrong in your assumption about medical costs. They will continue to rise and be bloated so long as bullshit government interference props up big insurance. Obamacare is just the latest in a long line of govt actions that have contributed to the problem.

I also have an argument against your fatalism about rising costs forever but it's a little to tech and off topic for this thread.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:18 PM   #18
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I am saying that the benefits listed don't mean squat to me. Would you rather I lie to you about it?
Youre not being truthful, you are skirting the issue..You ALREADY admitted your opinion might change in 20 years.

THAT is the very definition of short sighted...

You think you are a LOT smarter than you are, and I hope you remember this in 20 years.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I never said I don't have insurance? Where the hell do you get that from? I am saying that the benefits listed don't mean squat to me. Would you rather I lie to you about it?

You are also wrong in your assumption about medical costs. They will continue to rise and be bloated so long as bullshit government interference props up big insurance. Obamacare is just the latest in a long line of govt actions that have contributed to the problem.

I also have an argument against your fatalism about rising costs forever but it's a little to tech and off topic for this thread.
I didn't mean to come off as you don't have health insurance. I was speaking to the attitude of the young unmarried citizens who are leeching their health care off us that are paying into the system.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:34 PM   #20
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I didn't mean to come off as you don't have health insurance. I was speaking to the attitude of the young unmarried citizens who are leeching their health care off us that are paying into the system.
The problem is that most... like a VAST majority.. are not leeching anything. You could claim they are leeching the insurance "safety net" because free medical care is there for them if they need it but that is a bit of a stretch. And besides it isn't free, they WILL be charged even if it eventually ends up a write off.

The true basic problem for me is this entitlement attitude toward health care. It simply isn't a RIGHT. Period. If we want to make it a RIGHT then we need to go to single payer, otherwise we need to back the **** off and let the market run its course. That means getting govt out of the game as much as possible. No tax write offs no special laws protecting big insurance no FDA pandering to big pharma here and shutting out cheaper foreign drugs. etc etc etc. I look at health care and see so many problems that it is sickening. Almost EVERY aspect of it is ****ed up beyond belief. Obamacare only serves to prop most of that bullshit up. I was fine with the status quo because the status quo was cracking apart and showing signs of imminent failure. We need to learn sometimes its best to let things fail so we can fix them correctly. Instead we have become a nation of short sighted children who would rather treat symptoms instead of root problems.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:43 PM   #21
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Youre not being truthful, you are skirting the issue..You ALREADY admitted your opinion might change in 20 years.

THAT is the very definition of short sighted...

You think you are a LOT smarter than you are, and I hope you remember this in 20 years.
Or I might get hit by a bus instead. What you are trying to do is apply actuarial science to an individual, temporal question asked of a single individual. It doesn't work. Let me dumb it down for you. Way down.. wait.. WAY WAY down... See when you talk about statistics there are these things called outliers... wait never mind. I failed. I can't dumb it down enough, sorry.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:47 PM   #22
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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The true basic problem for me is this entitlement attitude toward health care. It simply isn't a RIGHT. Period. If we want to make it a RIGHT then we need to go to single payer,
It's not a right.

I was for medicare for all. Thats the ticket to lowering costs and getting the most bang for our health care buck.
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otherwise we need to back the **** off and let the market run its course. That means getting govt out of the game as much as possible. No tax write offs no special laws protecting big insurance no FDA pandering to big pharma here and shutting out cheaper foreign drugs. etc etc etc. I look at health care and see so many problems that it is sickening. Almost EVERY aspect of it is ****ed up beyond belief..
Everyone agreed that the system was all ****ed up. Just letting it crash and hoping something else better came out of the crash is not a good business plan.
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The problem is that most... like a VAST majority.. are not leeching anything. You could claim they are leeching the insurance "safety net" because free medical care is there for them if they need it but that is a bit of a stretch. And besides it isn't free, they WILL be charged even if it eventually ends up a write off.
Huh? You think someone is just writing this off? What does that mean? writing off their taxes? Wouldn't that mean they are taking our tax $?

They have no money. They go to the ER and or admitted to the hospital. Hospital can bill they person, but they are not going to get any money. Who pays the bill? We do with $10 aspirin, $21 bandages etc.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:01 PM   #23
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Huh? You think someone is just writing this off? What does that mean? writing off their taxes? Wouldn't that mean they are taking our tax $?
NO NO hospitals and insurance write it off when they don't pay which does drive up price IN THEORY. BUT you act as if you have all these middle class kids with no insurance using the emergency room then not paying their bills. That demographic you described is mostly a fiction.. it exists but not nearly in the dire quantities you are attempting to portray.

Another problem is that because we don't have a free market that theory is bogus. The price is already insanely inflated because of people's all consuming faith in big insurance. We don't pay outrageous costs because of too many UNINSURED people. We pay them because of too many OVER INSURED people. Which is why the costs won't go down as long as we prop up this system.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:18 PM   #24
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We don't pay outrageous costs because of too many UNINSURED people. We pay them because of too many OVER INSURED people. Which is why the costs won't go down as long as we prop up this system.
Sounds like you want to ration care? Set up death panels.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:25 PM   #25
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It has led universities to bludgeon the largest part of their work force so that they don't have to provide them health care.

Over the last thirty years all colleges have largely morphed from a tenure model to the model used by for-profit colleges: high churn through the use of adjunct instructors.

Consequently, almost every college in America has cut or will cut the hours of non-tenure track or tenure-track faculty so that they don't have to provide them with health care.

That said, cutting someone's hours to deny them coverage that should be a right anyway is not a flaw of the law itself, but of universities treating themselves like corporations.
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:49 PM   #26
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Sounds like you want to ration care? Set up death panels.
Obama already has with the penalization to hospitals for readmitting elderly patients to hospitals.
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:05 PM   #27
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Keeping the kids on the policy until they're 26 sounds great until you realize it's a Trojan horse like most of the law. They know damn well younger people won't buy insurance so look for that "benefit" to cost a lot of parents a lot of money when the burden gets shifted to them.

The "law" is a trainwreck and it isn't going to get better...
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:07 PM   #28
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Obama already has with the penalization to hospitals for readmitting elderly patients to hospitals.
Under the Affordable Care Act's Hospital Readmissions Reduction Program, hospitals that readmit "excessive" numbers of Medicare patients within 30 days of discharge now face significant penalties. The maximum penalty is 1% of a hospital's Medicare reimbursement, but that will increase to 3% in 2015.

That may not sound like a lot, but for hospitals already struggling financially—especially those serving the poor—losing 1%-3% of their Medicare reimbursements could put them out of business. While the Affordable Care Act addresses important gaps in health care and insurance, this regulation is one of its major failings.

Giving hospitals an incentive to improve the quality of care and reduce the rehospitalization of patients, thereby lowering Medicare costs, is a worthy goal. But the current approach flies in the face of the best medical science and jeopardizes the health of patients and the bottom line of hospitals in three important ways:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...777612184.html

Another thing Josef "BigRedChief" Goebbels failed to mention is that he can see the results of his 'anonymous' poll.

Carry on Josef.
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:10 PM   #29
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Under the Affordable Care Act's Hospital Readmissions Reduction Program, hospitals that readmit "excessive" numbers of Medicare patients within 30 days of discharge now face significant penalties. The maximum penalty is 1% of a hospital's Medicare reimbursement, but that will increase to 3% in 2015.


That may not sound like a lot, but for hospitals already struggling financially—especially those serving the poor—losing 1%-3% of their Medicare reimbursements could put them out of business. While the Affordable Care Act addresses important gaps in health care and insurance, this regulation is one of its major failings.


Giving hospitals an incentive to improve the quality of care and reduce the rehospitalization of patients, thereby lowering Medicare costs, is a worthy goal. But the current approach flies in the face of the best medical science and jeopardizes the health of patients and the bottom line of hospitals in three important ways:



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...777612184.html


Another thing Josef "BigRedChief" Goebbels failed to mention is that he can see the results of his 'anonymous' poll.


Carry on Josef.
Once it's entrenched that's just the beginning.
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:45 PM   #30
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Sounds like you want to ration care? Set up death panels.
Not at all, just the opposite. I want people to ration for THEMSELVES. Easy to do when you FEEL the real cost of health care but impossible to do when it's all "free" and you don't worry about medical costs you instead think in terms of INSURANCE costs. It's a ****ed up system that Obamacare has done such a great job of propping up and allowing us to live under for the foreseeable future. THAT is the main reason I LOATHE this short sighted half assed "solution." And let me be clear, this is not a partisan thing. BOTH parties are catering to the insurance industry just in different ways.
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