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Old 07-08-2013, 02:52 PM  
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Have you ever used steroids, HGH, etc.?

Just curious to see who uses or has used these types of products and what your experiences were.

Did you have a specific reason for using them?

Did they work?

Did you experience any side effects?
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:52 PM   #331
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People get pissed off about this subject, and I can't figure out why.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:52 PM   #332
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So it's a Congressional issue? Well, that isn't surprising. But I would think that if people could actually make money legally creating anabolic steroids and doctors could earn money prescribing them, there'd be a bigger movement to make them legal. Right?
Check out a guy named Patrick Arnold, former Balco chemist.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
People get pissed off about this subject, and I can't figure out why.
I think it's a stereo type issue. I'm getting the impression people view all users as guys like Jersey Shore douche bags, when in reality every day people with every day jobs like security guards, cops, firemen, teachers and computer programmers. I like my gym members better than your average guy walking the street. I can relate more to people that are busting their ass(yes even users bust their ass) and trying to better themselves then some slob at a bar stool. From my experience most of the guys I know in the gym and very cool guys and love helping out the novice lifters, but maybe that is just more of the midwest values. There is a level of respect given to each other.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:57 PM   #334
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hah hah

No joke. I'm friends with Andrew.
WTF?
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:00 PM   #335
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WTF?
What chu mean dawg? I mean Andy and I are friends. Have been for a few years now.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:00 PM   #336
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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I think it's a stereo type issue.
But who gives a shit? Some dude wants to look and feel a little better, so he uses HGH... Why would that piss off a complete stranger?
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:01 PM   #337
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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What chu mean dawg? I mean Andy and I are friends. Have been for a few years now.
That's just incredibly random.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:03 PM   #338
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But who gives a shit? Some dude wants to look and feel a little better, so he uses HGH... Why would that piss off a complete stranger?
Ahh, I see. That's usually jealousy to a point and again it's perceived that they might be attention whores even if that's not the case. I see hard work and dedication even if chemically enhanced, but I saw Hamas used the term "lazy" earlier and those guys are anything but so there is a perception problem. I busted my ass before TRT and I bust my ass after TRT I just now see better results. Walking 45 minutes on a step mill is damn tough no matter what you are taking.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:14 PM   #339
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That's just incredibly random.
Oh ok. you put up the vid of him.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:21 PM   #340
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I hate tren. Everyone raves about it but I ran it for 7 days and had to shut it down. Made me feel like I had asthma, and I couldn't take that.
Man I loved tren. It made me strong as hell and it cleared up my skin. However, it would give me coughing fits instantly after injecting. It felt like I had some itchy phlegm deep down in my lungs that I couldn't cough out.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:28 PM   #341
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They are dangerous if not used properly. They can most certainly cause organ damage and organ failure.

This is a serious question, not a joke: Why do you believe that anabolic steroids aren't controlled and sold over-the-counter?

Honestly the level of dipshit in this thread has increased exponentially mostly run by internet 'experts' who don't actually know what they're talking about but since they read it on some steroid board they think they do. I could dismiss the purely asinine claims being made lately but honestly it's not worth my time. Frankly after I post here I'll put this shit on thread ignore because if people want to keep talking out their asses about it being safe by all means go right ahead.

Here are the issue with steroid abuse. The first set is ones in all honesty I don't think anyone will argue about...

QUOTE]Anabolic steroid abuse in athletes has been associated with a wide range of adverse conditions, including hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis, gynaecomastia, and psychiatric disturbance[/QUOTE

Hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis....in short issues with your balls. This one is really not rocket science if you add external testosterone then your body is going to stop producing the natural supply. The problem is your balls don't only produce testosterone, they produce other factors too some of which we may not measure well or understand the health implications of stopping production. One that is obvious is that your sperm can get all ****ed up because if your body doesn't produce test it can fool with the production of sperm also. Stopping steroids usually reverses many of these conditions(and people take other drugs to try to restart natural production). But if you keep cycling on and off there is no certainty that the body will always bounce back. Every time you shut it off it might not restart. Short term use probably less of an issue but long term it's all unknown.

gynaecomastia - affectionately known as bitch tits...in short you have too much estrogen which stimulates the growth of breast tissue. There are drugs that can help reduce some of the effects of this(i.e. the anti-estrogens etc). This one is probably the least damaging of the side affects and worst case you can get it removed with surgery.

psychiatric disturbance - otherwise known as roid rage, etc. Steriods can also trigger things like bipolar disorder etc. In short it can **** up your head ask Chris Benoit about this one. The magnitude depends of course on the individual but this is always a real risk.

Frankly I don't think even users are going to argue about any of above issues. They are issues but outside of the last one probably relatively modest to health outside of reproductive health.

But the bigger issue which they are still researching to understand why is the associated risk between steroids and what they call "Left ventricular hypertrophy". While ventricular hypertrophy itself is not a bad thing(it is when the heart gets bigger/stronger and pumps more...other wise known as athletes heart).

However in the case of "Left ventricular hypertrophy" the adding of heart muscle is detrimental to heart health. For whatever reason, most often due to things like hypertension or damage from heart attacks the left ventricular thickens increasing the risk of a host of heart problems. In some cases the LVH can be reversed, in others it cannot.

The exact pathology is unclear at this point but they have done studies on people who have and have not used anabolic steroids and those who have know and show a significantly larger incidence of 'Left ventricular hypertrophy'.

Honestly it's not terribly surprising what could be going on here. Heart hypertrophy is not in itself a bad thing, it helps the heart pump more blood. Both endurance athletes and strength athletes experience it. It is the strengthening of the heart muscle.

For whatever reason the data is showing that people who abuse anabolic steroids don't just have good heart muscle growth but also dysfunctional heart muscle growth. Now is this surprising? Given steroids help stimulate muscle growth it's not surprising they would also help grow the muscle in the heart too. The problem is that extra growth appears to go wrong and actually manifest as LVH. Frankly the fact the the growth goes wrong shouldn't be surprising either. If you're running at 2-3X normal body testosterone level who knows how your body is going to respond to levels that high.

This is the big issue, I don't believed they determined the exact reason this happens in steroids but they can show that LVH occurs significantly more even when you compare people that are exercising at the same levels(just some with steroids and some without).

Again everyone has know about the possible link between steroids and heart damage due to the deaths of NFLs from the 70s-80s with things like premature heart attacks and pro wrestlers too. The difference is they've been able to show now that there is 'bad' heart muscle growth in steroid users.

Steroids can be great at helping you build muscle the problem is they also appear to help the heart add muscle in a dysfunctional way. I suspect it has less to do with steroids and more to due with how much you are using. Use steroids to boost your T levels by a smallish amount there is probably minimal risk. But the more you take and the longer you do it the greater your risk for long term heart damage.

You may not see it today or even 10 years from now but it could show up as an early heart attack at a future point in life. There are pluses to using steroids but lets not pretend they are safe. They help build muscle, but not all muscle they build may be healthy(i.e. the LVH) in you heart. You may not see it today but that risk is always there. You have to decide if it's worth it to you.

Ok I'm out of this thread....
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:29 PM   #342
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You can get a lot of stuff at aging clinics I think (HGH, Test etc...) but as pointed out, its ridiculous expensive and I don't even think there is a clinic within 2 hours of where I live.

Used in moderation that stuff is like the fountain of youth from what I understand.
Yep I checked out. $400 a month. They shoot a pebble the size of a hampster turd in your ass. It's a slow release that lasts a month or 3. It was either my kid's college degree or my youth...it was a tough choice.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:33 PM   #343
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Very good information here. Thanks. Messing with hormones is infinitely more complicated that most people realize. The way the endocrine system works with the nervous system makes it literally impossible to predict what does/could happen when you alter the process. It's never as simple as "Take this, and then this will happen." We just don't know enough about the process.

Commercials these days relating to LowT are nothing but fear mongering bullshit. I'd hate to think how many people these days are taking Testosterone therapy for the wrong reasons. But it's insanely profitable, because it relies so heavily on self-defined "Quality of life" metrics. It's scary that so many people are taking it not because an actual doctor recommended it, but because a janky LowT shop convinced them that they needed it. There are certainly valid uses for it, but more often than not it's being pushed as a trendy health fad.
BTW the commercials about lowT are bullshit trying to sell a product that is actually the wrong way to treat the problem. The problem is the other ways to treat the problem are MUCH cheaper so there's no money in running the studies to prove the efficacy. It's funny the company that makes the synthetic T actually paid a generic company NOT to make it so they could charge more. The whole concept behind adding artificial T to solve this or any T problem is really wrong.

But this was my one exception to the one post rule...now I'm out for real.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:37 PM   #344
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Honestly the level of dipshit in this thread has increased exponentially mostly run by internet 'experts' who don't actually know what they're talking about but since they read it on some steroid board they think they do. I could dismiss the purely asinine claims being made lately but honestly it's not worth my time. Frankly after I post here I'll put this shit on thread ignore because if people want to keep talking out their asses about it being safe by all means go right ahead.

Here are the issue with steroid abuse. The first set is ones in all honesty I don't think anyone will argue about...

QUOTE]Anabolic steroid abuse in athletes has been associated with a wide range of adverse conditions, including hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis, gynaecomastia, and psychiatric disturbance[/QUOTE

Hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis....in short issues with your balls. This one is really not rocket science if you add external testosterone then your body is going to stop producing the natural supply. The problem is your balls don't only produce testosterone, they produce other factors too some of which we may not measure well or understand the health implications of stopping production. One that is obvious is that your sperm can get all ****ed up because if your body doesn't produce test it can fool with the production of sperm also. Stopping steroids usually reverses many of these conditions(and people take other drugs to try to restart natural production). But if you keep cycling on and off there is no certainty that the body will always bounce back. Every time you shut it off it might not restart. Short term use probably less of an issue but long term it's all unknown.

gynaecomastia - affectionately known as bitch tits...in short you have too much estrogen which stimulates the growth of breast tissue. There are drugs that can help reduce some of the effects of this(i.e. the anti-estrogens etc). This one is probably the least damaging of the side affects and worst case you can get it removed with surgery.

psychiatric disturbance - otherwise known as roid rage, etc. Steriods can also trigger things like bipolar disorder etc. In short it can **** up your head ask Chris Benoit about this one. The magnitude depends of course on the individual but this is always a real risk.

Frankly I don't think even users are going to argue about any of above issues. They are issues but outside of the last one probably relatively modest to health outside of reproductive health.

But the bigger issue which they are still researching to understand why is the associated risk between steroids and what they call "Left ventricular hypertrophy". While ventricular hypertrophy itself is not a bad thing(it is when the heart gets bigger/stronger and pumps more...other wise known as athletes heart).

However in the case of "Left ventricular hypertrophy" the adding of heart muscle is detrimental to heart health. For whatever reason, most often due to things like hypertension or damage from heart attacks the left ventricular thickens increasing the risk of a host of heart problems. In some cases the LVH can be reversed, in others it cannot.

The exact pathology is unclear at this point but they have done studies on people who have and have not used anabolic steroids and those who have know and show a significantly larger incidence of 'Left ventricular hypertrophy'.

Honestly it's not terribly surprising what could be going on here. Heart hypertrophy is not in itself a bad thing, it helps the heart pump more blood. Both endurance athletes and strength athletes experience it. It is the strengthening of the heart muscle.

For whatever reason the data is showing that people who abuse anabolic steroids don't just have good heart muscle growth but also dysfunctional heart muscle growth. Now is this surprising? Given steroids help stimulate muscle growth it's not surprising they would also help grow the muscle in the heart too. The problem is that extra growth appears to go wrong and actually manifest as LVH. Frankly the fact the the growth goes wrong shouldn't be surprising either. If you're running at 2-3X normal body testosterone level who knows how your body is going to respond to levels that high.

This is the big issue, I don't believed they determined the exact reason this happens in steroids but they can show that LVH occurs significantly more even when you compare people that are exercising at the same levels(just some with steroids and some without).

Again everyone has know about the possible link between steroids and heart damage due to the deaths of NFLs from the 70s-80s with things like premature heart attacks and pro wrestlers too. The difference is they've been able to show now that there is 'bad' heart muscle growth in steroid users.

Steroids can be great at helping you build muscle the problem is they also appear to help the heart add muscle in a dysfunctional way. I suspect it has less to do with steroids and more to due with how much you are using. Use steroids to boost your T levels by a smallish amount there is probably minimal risk. But the more you take and the longer you do it the greater your risk for long term heart damage.

You may not see it today or even 10 years from now but it could show up as an early heart attack at a future point in life. There are pluses to using steroids but lets not pretend they are safe. They help build muscle, but not all muscle they build may be healthy(i.e. the LVH) in you heart. You may not see it today but that risk is always there. You have to decide if it's worth it to you.

Ok I'm out of this thread....
In case you come back are there any links to body builder deaths? You only site NFL and Pro Wrestlers who also likely abuse a number of substances including Lyle Alzado who was actually using HGH from cadavors instead of the synthetic stuff used today.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:39 PM   #345
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BTW the commercials about lowT are bullshit trying to sell a product that is actually the wrong way to treat the problem. The problem is the other ways to treat the problem are MUCH cheaper so there's no money in running the studies to prove the efficacy. It's funny the company that makes the synthetic T actually paid a generic company NOT to make it so they could charge more. The whole concept behind adding artificial T to solve this or any T problem is really wrong.

But this was my one exception to the one post rule...now I'm out for real.
D-Aspartic acid?
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