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Old 07-12-2013, 03:01 PM  
teedubya teedubya is offline
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Snowden's Statement Today in Moscow...

Hello. My name is Ed Snowden. A little over one month ago, I had family, a home in paradise, and I lived in great comfort. I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone's communications at any time. That is the power to change people's fates.

It is also a serious violation of the law. The 4th and 5th Amendments to the Constitution of my country, Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and numerous statutes and treaties forbid such systems of massive, pervasive surveillance. While the US Constitution marks these programs as illegal, my government argues that secret court rulings, which the world is not permitted to see, somehow legitimize an illegal affair. These rulings simply corrupt the most basic notion of justice - that it must be seen to be done. The immoral cannot be made moral through the use of secret law.

I believe in the principle declared at Nuremberg in 1945: "Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience. Therefore individual citizens have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."

Accordingly, I did what I believed right and began a campaign to correct this wrongdoing. I did not seek to enrich myself. I did not seek to sell US secrets. I did not partner with any foreign government to guarantee my safety. Instead, I took what I knew to the public, so what affects all of us can be discussed by all of us in the light of day, and I asked the world for justice.

That moral decision to tell the public about spying that affects all of us has been costly, but it was the right thing to do and I have no regrets.

Since that time, the government and intelligence services of the United States of America have attempted to make an example of me, a warning to all others who might speak out as I have. I have been made stateless and hounded for my act of political expression. The United States Government has placed me on no-fly lists. It demanded Hong Kong return me outside of the framework of its laws, in direct violation of the principle of non-refoulement - the Law of Nations. It has threatened with sanctions countries who would stand up for my human rights and the UN asylum system. It has even taken the unprecedented step of ordering military allies to ground a Latin American president's plane in search for a political refugee. These dangerous escalations represent a threat not just to the dignity of Latin America, but to the basic rights shared by every person, every nation, to live free from persecution, and to seek and enjoy asylum.

Yet even in the face of this historically disproportionate aggression, countries around the world have offered support and asylum. These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. By refusing to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation, they have earned the respect of the world. It is my intention to travel to each of these countries to extend my personal thanks to their people and leaders.

I announce today my formal acceptance of all offers of support or asylum I have been extended and all others that may be offered in the future. With, for example, the grant of asylum provided by Venezuela's President Maduro, my asylee status is now formal, and no state has a basis by which to limit or interfere with my right to enjoy that asylum. As we have seen, however, some governments in Western European and North American states have demonstrated a willingness to act outside the law, and this behavior persists today. This unlawful threat makes it impossible for me to travel to Latin America and enjoy the asylum granted there in accordance with our shared rights.

This willingness by powerful states to act extra-legally represents a threat to all of us, and must not be allowed to succeed. Accordingly, I ask for your assistance in requesting guarantees of safe passage from the relevant nations in securing my travel to Latin America, as well as requesting asylum in Russia until such time as these states accede to law and my legal travel is permitted. I will be submitting my request to Russia today, and hope it will be accepted favorably.

If you have any questions, I will answer what I can.

Thank you.

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Old 07-12-2013, 10:26 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Sounds like something Sarah Palin would say, and she's pretty dumb.
example #2
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:06 AM   #32
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I'm 90% sure those words weren't spoken at Nuremberg.

"Needless to say, it matters whether an act is criminal under international law or under domestic law. Because we now have “international crimes,” not simply municipal crimes that are prescribed or authorized by international law, defendants accused of such crimes cannot argue that their actions were legal under domestic law or were taken in their official capacity, entitling them to immunity from prosecution. In the words of the Nuremberg Tribunal:

Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience imposed by the individual State.
He who violates the laws of war cannot obtain immunity while acting in pursuance of the authority of the State if the State in authorising action moves outside its competence under international law."


From: A Genealogy of International Criminal Law, Kevin Jon Heller, Melbourne Law School

Wrong again, you statist pig.

I guess since it wasn't stated by one of your National Socialist heroes, you just didn't recognize it.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:04 AM
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:06 AM   #33
Taco John Taco John is offline
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It's amusing to me that all the same neocons who cheered miring our country in winless wars are the same ones calling Snowden a traitor. I guess neocons aren't just satisfied with having soldiers lose limbs, they need us to lose our liberties and identity too.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:06 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
It's amusing to me that all the same neocons who cheered miring our country in winless wars are the same ones calling Snowden a traitor. I guess neocons aren't just satisfied with having soldiers lose limbs, they need us to lose our liberties and identity too.
He's a per se traitor. Whether his original intent was somehow noble in his mind is meaningless at this point. When you make copies of damaging top secret information and leak it to our enemies, while seeking asylum there, I have no use for you.

He's garbage who's only interest is himself.

I can see why you admire him.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:20 AM   #35
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
He's a per se traitor. Whether his original intent was somehow noble in his mind is meaningless at this point. When you make copies of damaging top secret information and leak it to our enemies, while seeking asylum there, I have no use for you.

He's garbage who's only interest is himself.

I can see why you admire him.

You're garbage who's only interest is an all-seeing, all-powerful state.

Funny you think of yourself as an atheist. It's very apparent who your God is...
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:50 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
"Needless to say, it matters whether an act is criminal under international law or under domestic law. Because we now have “international crimes,” not simply municipal crimes that are prescribed or authorized by international law, defendants accused of such crimes cannot argue that their actions were legal under domestic law or were taken in their official capacity, entitling them to immunity from prosecution. In the words of the Nuremberg Tribunal:

Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience imposed by the individual State.
He who violates the laws of war cannot obtain immunity while acting in pursuance of the authority of the State if the State in authorising action moves outside its competence under international law."


From: A Genealogy of International Criminal Law, Kevin Jon Heller, Melbourne Law School

Wrong again, you statist pig.

I guess since it wasn't stated by one of your National Socialist heroes, you just didn't recognize it.
Link please.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:44 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
It's amusing to me that all the same neocons who cheered miring our country in winless wars are the same ones calling Snowden a traitor. I guess neocons aren't just satisfied with having soldiers lose limbs, they need us to lose our liberties and identity too.
We won the war in Iraq until we had a change of civilian leadership.

And which liberties are we losing by enabling our government to monitor the global communications of our foreign enemies? I'm not completely comfortable with the government warehousing a lot of domestic data along with that which is directly related to foreign intelligence because I understand that future governments are likely to push the boundaries and abusively exploit that data. But I haven't heard anything to make me think that that is already the case, despite my baseline distrust in the current administration.

Can the government send a police officer out to follow you every time you leave your house and record his observations about your whereabouts and your activities while out in public or would that be a loss of liberty? If they can do that, why can't they observe traffic on the telecom grid? It seems arbitrary to define one as public and the other as private.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:26 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
He's a per se traitor. Whether his original intent was somehow noble in his mind is meaningless at this point. When you make copies of damaging top secret information and leak it to our enemies, while seeking asylum there, I have no use for you.

He's garbage who's only interest is himself.


I can see why you admire him.
Oh the Irony.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:32 AM   #39
teedubya teedubya is offline
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People who think Snowden is a traitor are idiots.

"Oh, they should have shared the information with their bosses... or with the US media..."

Oh, like every other whistleblower who has tried this route and been ignored?

The US Media is bought and paid for, you ****ing idiots. And Snowden's higher ups are most entangled in the web of deceit than he is... why would they change anything?

You all are mental.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:44 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by teedubya View Post
People who think Snowden is a traitor are idiots.

"Oh, they should have shared the information with their bosses... or with the US media..."

Oh, like every other whistleblower who has tried this route and been ignored?

The US Media is bought and paid for, you ****ing idiots. And Snowden's higher ups are most entangled in the web of deceit than he is... why would they change anything?

You all are mental.
I take it you aren't aware that Snowden had contact with the Washington Post?
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:28 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by teedubya View Post
People who think Snowden is a traitor are idiots.

"Oh, they should have shared the information with their bosses... or with the US media..."

Oh, like every other whistleblower who has tried this route and been ignored?

The US Media is bought and paid for, you ****ing idiots. And Snowden's higher ups are most entangled in the web of deceit than he is... why would they change anything?

You all are mental.
I hear you. It's much better to share with the Russians and the Chinese. I'm not sure what I was thinking.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:33 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by teedubya View Post
People who think Snowden is a traitor are idiots.


The US Media is bought and paid for, you ****ing idiots. And Snowden's higher ups are most entangled in the web of deceit than he is... why would they change anything?


but dumb Americans: "honey....what time is American idol on?"
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:52 AM   #43
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Link please.
You've got the author and the book title.

Look it up your-****ing-self. Has the state drained so much of your intellectual abilities away that you can't even use Google anymore?
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:01 AM   #44
Donger Donger is offline
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Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
You've got the author and the book title.

Look it up your-****ing-self. Has the state drained so much of your intellectual abilities away that you can't even use Google anymore?
I already have. There is no source listed for that quote.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:05 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
When you make copies of damaging top secret information and leak it to our enemies, while seeking asylum there, I have no use for you.
There's no evidence that has happened, and he says it hasn't.
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