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Old 07-16-2013, 09:59 PM  
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Interesting Study Regarding US Nonbelievers, Re: Categories Of Atheism

On June 6th of this year at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga (UTC) Departments of Psychology and Learning and Leadership, completed research focused on nonbelief within the United States. This project was designed and implemented by Christopher F. Silver doctoral candidate and Thomas J. Coleman III a student at UTC. The research sought to explore the complexities of nonbelief identity in the United States.

http://www.atheismresearch.com/
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:05 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I was raised in a pretty deeply devoted family. And as far as I know, I'm the only one in my family who would consider themselves as anything but Christian. Some of my family members would likely be quite shocked to know what I don't believe. I insist on being very honest with me beliefs though, so when they ask I always tell the truth. That has made for a few touchy conversations at times. My daughter is still being raised Christian, and still attends church. And that's just fine and neither I, nor her mother(Christian) has any problem with that. I'm honest with my daughter, and when we discuss things, I explain my position with complete neutrality and let her think for herself. I'll let her grow as I did, and she'll have her own decisions to make when she's old enough to understand such things completely.
Yeah, same here. Outside of me, I don't think there's anyone in my close family who isn't religious at least at some level. I've never made a big deal out of "coming out" necessarily, but like you I always seek to be truthful, so my parents know at this point for sure. I'm not very combative about it, so I just keep to myself and let everyone do whatever makes them happy.

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I agree with you in that I find religion to mostly be a waste of time. But still, there are aspects of religion that I acknowledge as being helpful and positive for many people. Fellowship, care for one another, do unto others, help those less fortunate, etc. For some people, that provides them with some decent life tools that keep them from being an asshole. In that respect, religion can be a positive. My problem is when religious people ignore these simple basic teachings, and act like as asshole anyway. And then use religion to justify their asshole behavior or the ignorance that their religion affords them. That and putting forth their religious beliefs as fact, and trying to apply those beliefs to things outside of their religion like school or politics.
I agree with that for the most part. I do think the sense of community that going to a church brings is missing for many atheists. In fact, there are a handful of atheist "churches" popping up here and there to serve just that purpose.

I do think that it's possible to get the other things you mentioned outside of religion though (do unto others, helping, etc.). It just takes more effort to find good opportunities to volunteer and things like that.

The next decade should be interesting I think. Religion on the U.S. is clearly on a (very slow) decline, so it'll be interesting to see what new ideas (like the atheist churches) pop up to fill some of those voids as more and more people find themselves looking for something like that.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:47 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
I will say one thing about Scott free. He at least has some reason to believe in his mind. He has tried to find evidence for his beliefs. Thats far more than most theists so congrats for that.

His deep desire for it to be true has put a lens of acceptance over the "facts" in this case but the guy is at least searching. In the end he will find the truth if he continues to look.
You've got me all wrong, the fact is i did not go looking for pretty much all of the experiences i've had, they were just kind of thrust upon me at random times, almost always when the last thing i was thinking about was "finding the truth of life".

Not to preach at you, i'm not strong enough in faith to preach to anyone, but you in particular have always amazed me, in that you are a dedicated student of the cosmos, constantly studying the heavens, gazing upon things so glorious that it boggles the mind of atheist and believer alike... yet all you find in that endless, timeless beauty is random accident.

Even most of the Apollo astronauts, once they were in space, couldnt help but think that there was some kind of architect at work. Anyway, this is my last post on this subject so dont think i'm bucking for an endless, pointless argument... all i can say is that i've personally experienced all of the proof i need, no daydreaming required.

Best wishes, Dave.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
You've got me all wrong, the fact is i did not go looking for pretty much all of the experiences i've had, they were just kind of thrust upon me at random times, almost always when the last thing i was thinking about was "finding the truth of life".

Not to preach at you, i'm not strong enough in faith to preach to anyone, but you in particular have always amazed me, in that you are a dedicated student of the cosmos, constantly studying the heavens, gazing upon things so glorious that it boggles the mind of atheist and believer alike... yet all you find in that endless, timeless beauty is random accident.

Even most of the Apollo astronauts, once they were in space, couldnt help but think that there was some kind of architect at work. Anyway, this is my last post on this subject so dont think i'm bucking for an endless, pointless argument... all i can say is that i've personally experienced all of the proof i need, no daydreaming required.

Best wishes, Dave.
Sounds like you're done replying, but I'm gonna have to call "link" on that one. Some had spiritual experiences - sure - but I've never heard it stated like it was a common thing that "most" of them experienced. And I certainly don't know of any who were vocally atheist prior to going up and came down believing in a god.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:17 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
Sounds like you're done replying, but I'm gonna have to call "link" on that one. Some had spiritual experiences - sure - but I've never heard it stated like it was a common thing that "most" of them experienced. And I certainly don't know of any who were vocally atheist prior to going up and came down believing in a god.
It was from a book called Rocketmen, and i might've overstated my case by saying many, though atleast 2-3 did state those sentiments.

No, i didnt read a word that said some were devout atheists, but if you re-read the post, i never said atheists went up and believers came down, most of those guys were, to one extent or another, raised in an era where belief wasnt such a farfetched, taboo thing, they were in many ways very old fashioned products of the 40's-50's... trying to link specific passages i'm not inclined to bother with, but the truth is many of those men did have profound thoughts that they didnt have before.

Ok, now i'm finished
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:42 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
You've got me all wrong, the fact is i did not go looking for pretty much all of the experiences i've had, they were just kind of thrust upon me at random times, almost always when the last thing i was thinking about was "finding the truth of life".

Not to preach at you, i'm not strong enough in faith to preach to anyone, but you in particular have always amazed me, in that you are a dedicated student of the cosmos, constantly studying the heavens, gazing upon things so glorious that it boggles the mind of atheist and believer alike... yet all you find in that endless, timeless beauty is random accident.

Even most of the Apollo astronauts, once they were in space, couldnt help but think that there was some kind of architect at work. Anyway, this is my last post on this subject so dont think i'm bucking for an endless, pointless argument... all i can say is that i've personally experienced all of the proof i need, no daydreaming required.

Best wishes, Dave.

Awesome post man.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:16 PM   #111
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P.S. His delivery at the end is just outright creepy. And who the hell pronounces the "h" in "Theresa"?


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Old 07-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
I will say one thing about Scott free. He at least has some reason to believe in his mind. He has tried to find evidence for his beliefs. Thats far more than most theists so congrats for that.

His deep desire for it to be true has put a lens of acceptance over the "facts" in this case but the guy is at least searching. In the end he will find the truth if he continues to look.
....not how it works...if Scott was searching, and that appears to be true..., God revealed the truth to him.

this is where the conflict comes in....men tend to make God into a corruptible image of man..that's why non beleivers are always moving the goal posts, and think that believers mistakes or man's religion somehow corrupts or invalidates God.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:03 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
...that's why non beleivers are always moving the goal posts...

Not true. There aren't any goalposts for a nonbeliever to move, really. You can base your belief system in faith or you can base your belief system in reason. You can even mix the two if that's your preference.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:20 PM   #114
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I'm just going to leave this here and go to bed:

The following article by Albert Einstein appeared in the New York Times Magazine on November 9, 1930 pp 1-4. It has been reprinted in Ideas and Opinions, Crown Publishers, Inc. 1954, pp 36 - 40. It also appears in Einstein's book The World as I See It, Philosophical Library, New York, 1949, pp. 24 - 28.

-snip-

Common to all these types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

-snip-

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:40 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
I enjoy indepth interesting debates on religion in real life but its hard to find. I've convinced many people that the is no evidence for religion and had them change their position. Online they just run away because there is no defense that works.
yes, religion exists...
god probably doesn't
weather any body believes one way or another I don't care..


faith is like a penis...
you can have it,
but nobody wants you to share it in public




I have no idea who I stole that from, but it is a good line
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:28 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyko Tek View Post
yes, religion exists...
god probably doesn't
weather any body believes one way or another I don't care..


faith is like a penis...
you can have it,
but nobody wants you to share it in public




I have no idea who I stole that from, but it is a good line
Or cram it down my kids throat.

And yes it is a very good quote thanks for sharing.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 07-27-2013, 06:10 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Or cram it down my kids throat.
Anyone with half a brain can see you will cram your beliefs down not only your kids throat but anyone around you.

You already admitted as much
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:16 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Anyone with half a brain can see you will cram your beliefs down not only your kids throat but anyone around you.

You already admitted as much
Sure thing buckwheat. Why don't you put on your helmet like a good boy and go outside and play?
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:17 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Someday I aim to employ all the civility and grace you exhibit. I can see by your posting style how much fun you would be to hang around. I can only imagine the number of friends that flock to your beautiful, magnetic personality.

Until then I can admire from afar.
fun fun fun til her daddy took her tbird away...

what about empathy?

the bitch just oozes empathy...
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:40 PM   #120
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i was merely asking what are the limits of possibility, not suggesting such a thing actually happened.
can either of you say the situation in my previous post is absolutely impossible?
What you are describing depends upon several assumptions, or hypotheses if you wish. You are supposing the existence of nonhuman intelligent life, that this life form was substantially more advanced than our own, that this life form interacted with humans and that humans reacted to them by considering them gods. You can also speculate upon the nature of the contact made by the two groups, the physical form of the aliens and even whether these nonhumans were in fact alien. I don't believe that this can be proven to be impossible, but I would apply the same rigid methods of investigation to that topic that I would apply to religious beliefs systems.
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